Droopystop
I appreciate your comments about lawyers (better informed than the anti-lawyer rants which frequently appear on Pprune) but I still think you under-rate a professional pilot's qualifications.
I seen no reason why professional pilots shouldn't have the same 'social standing' and pay as a degree trained professional.
You're right that doctors and lawyers take longer to qualify, but the difference isn't as quite great as the 'years' suggest. The 4 academic years actually amount to 4 x 26 weeks = 2 years.
'Degree trained'?
There was a time when having a degree really meant something; now it depends upon what degree and which 'university'.
"The current training system in aviation allows virtually anyone with a handful of dollars to become a professional pilot."
The same is now true of getting a degree. When I was a student, only 4% of school leavers got into university. Since the government decided on a target of 50%, and decided all colleges should be called 'universities', anyone who really wants a degree would have to be really thick not to be able to get some degree from somewhere or other.
"Money is just about the only means of selection."
The same selection process applies to many of the new universities. A couple of E's at 'A' level and funds to get through three academic years (about six months each) will get you onto some course somewhere.
"How relevant is that to being a good pilot?"
How relevant is having a degree to being a good pilot? How is an ability to excel in the academic sphere (even assuming a degree from a good university) relevant to being a good pilot? People see the practical side of the work of doctors and lawyers, but it also involves a significant amount of studying behind the scenes throughout your career so, unless you have an academic ability, you won't succeed at the practical.
"Now if aviation made it harder to become a pilot by ensuring that only the good get through, then and only then will the wages will increase."
How would requiring a degree ensure that only good pilots get through? Assuming we're talking about good universities, then all it would prove is academic ability.
I have no doubt whatsoever that someone capable of obtaining an ATPL is more than capable of getting a degree - and I don't just mean daft courses at (now called) universities.
I fully agree with you about the experience aspect. I often read newly-qualified FIs saying their hourly rate/annual income should be commensurate with what it's cost them to qualify. That's a great idea, but unrealistic IMHO.
Hummingfrog
Well done on getting your B.Sc. Eng. It's not immediately obvious from the level of reasoning in your post how you managed it, but good for you.
"Lawyers are only paid so much because they work in a subsidised industry"
I doubt if you'll allow the facts to get in the way of your ill-informed prejudices but, FWIW,if I get paid
per day when I do publicly funded work what I get
per hour when doing 'free market' privately paid work, I'm happy. I choose to do some aviation work for pilots at publicly funded rates or less (or for nothing in appropriate cases), but that's a different matter and my choice.
Assuming you're correct about the the last legal aid bill, and using the academic and intellectual skills your degree implies, how does the total legal aid bill enable you determine how much individual lawyers doing publicly funded work are paid, or form an informed opinion about whether they are overpaid?
"Take away legal aid and lawyers pay would plummet."
No doubt that's why lawyers in America where there's virtually no publicly funded work are famously poor.
Publicly funded work is the worst paid of all legal work.
"Accountants can only see the price of something not its value"
Yes. I'm sure airlines and other aviation companies would work much more efficiently and profitably if they were run by pilots.
"When did you last see a .... lawyer in a hostile environment working anti social hours"
We don't work in hostile environments, but if you think lawyers we don't work anti-social hours you don't know much about our jobs. Perhaps you think barristers only work when the courts are sitting.
Nobody needs lawyers?
I can think of a few pilots still working, and the families of pilots killed in accidents, who'd disgaree with you.
Nobody needs lawyers - until they need one.
Heliseka
I disagree. It depends upon the youngster.
Two brothers I know have recently made that decision, both deciding to become plumbers.
For the younger one, it's a good choice. Lovely lad, but thick. (Failing every single GCSE takes some doing.) I'm sure he'll be very happy, particularly if he qualifies before the number of plumbers increases and they will no longer be able to charge astronomical rates.
The elder brother is bright. Good GCSE grades, but dropped out of school during his 'A' level course, abandoning all plans to go to university because he was fed up of studying and wants money now.
I hope he changes his mind before it's too late. We all have different strengths and, unless he ends up in a job which challenges his brain power/intellectual capacity, I believe he'll end up very frustrated when the fun of earning good money while young has passed.