Airlines won't come clean on Establishment figures because they are commercially sensitive info. It sounds as though the Charter Airlines are going to have a bash at the old days of 6 to 6.5 crews per aircraft at the expense of any social agreements with their workforce. (and to the benefit of their shareholders and Management. .bonuses). .. .Wonder how that will fit in with their on time performance goals when they get "no crew " situ's. Even with any social agreements the Airlines still rely on crew goodwill so it will be an interesting summer ahead. . .. .That said, jobs a job, so wouldn't it be better to stall out any agreement until next year when. .things may be better?. .. . <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="mad.gif" />