Hello all.
PLEASE NOTE: This is a very long post! It is aimed at addressing a few points from the original post, so you may wish to skip it.
I am the author of the article about the Jetstar trip and I would like to respond to the points raised by Vee Von Kutt and others. I would like you to know that I wrote the article out of frustration and with (what I thought..) a sense of humour. I appreciate that some people will disagree with my comments and to those of you who made valid arguments, thank you.
I was very surprised to read some of the vitriolic responses posted, and to be fair, I was making a strong statement myself, about an industry that feeds you. However, at no time did I attack any one person for simply raising issues, my ‘attacks’ were at the system and a number of staff I thought were poorly trained.
Firstly to respond to Golow: "Another pax who buys a cheap fare and wants to be treated like a king. Jetstar gets them all the time. Drive next time and save us all from you"
I am no king and do not expect to be treated as such, what I do expect is to be treated like a person. Simple things like a courtesy call to say "your flight has been delayed" or even a valid comment as to the reason behind the delay is a start. As I said in my story (which as has been quiet rightly pointed out) I failed to note that Jetstar was operating the service, so I was not buying a cheap seat – I was under the impression I was buying a Q seat. You say Jetstar gets ‘people like me’ all the time. From that I assume you know me? I am an honest person who treats others with respect and dignity. I was never rude to the staff (I know how to ask questions/raise concerns/complain without yelling) and I also know that often the counter staff are the receivers of unwarranted criticism from people who don’t know what they are talking about. I have some idea of the aviation industry and know that being rude to the guy that clocked on that morning was not going to achieve anything. Dissatisfaction can be conveyed in a personable fashion, and I hope that more people do it (not just in the aviation industry – but with all service providers).
Perhaps if more people like me did drive, Jetstar and all the other airlines wouldn’t have any passengers to worry about. What’s that old saying? "This airline would be great if it wasn’t for the passengers."
Di_vosh: "I'm wondering why he just didn't go up to the Q Club? Free food and drink, and a lot more quiet."
Fortunately I earn enough to be able to pay the hundreds of dollars that it cost to be a member of the Q Club, but many others don’t, and in fact is often the reason they are flying ‘the cheap’ seats in the first place. I was not the only person on that flight – the vast majority were not Q Club members so couldn’t go for a free beer. I think it rather presumptuous to think that we can all kill some time in the Q club. Many people are stuck in the crowded, noisy departure lounges with no escape. A ten-hour wait for them is even more harrowing than it is for me.
Aircraft: "Jetstar is working hard to provide the travelling public with the fares they want. That the public have unreasonable expectations of the service they will receive is not the fault of Jetstar."
I never expected to be waited on hand and foot. I merely expected courteous, professional service (I forgot to mention in the story that my 18 month old son and those other young children on the flight were not even given a seat belt). The crew operating that sector was, in my opinion, under trained for the task. Service provided when everything is on an even keel is usually easy to give. It is only when you have to deal with the unexpected does true professionalism shine through, or in this case, poor training becomes expossed.
You go on to say "As Jetstar are a low cost carrier, you have got to expect those aspects of their service that you highlighted. Automated phone service? Exactly the sort of thing you should have been expecting." Yes, but not a poorly managed/designed system. If no comments are made, how will this be fixed?
"Long queues and terse check in staff? Exactly the sort of thing you should have been expecting."
I am flabbergasted that I should expect terse check in staff! Since when is the customer a hindrance to the business they support? Without customers there is no business! I find this a mind-boggling concept that because the airline is a low cost carrier, they can’t afford to employ competent/polite/civil staff. I realise this country has gone through a number of IR reforms, but I was unaware that you could pay people less if they were terse.
"The fog was not the fault of Jetstar. The stale sandwiches were not the fault of Jetstar." I never stated that they were. I know Jetstar have no control over the weather or the price of sandwiches.
Mobi LAME: "I keep seeing in this thread how this poor soul 'bought' his Qantas ticket not knowing he would end up on a Jetstar flight. Didn't I see he had 'cashed in' some Frequent Flyer points. Now the question remains as to whether he accumulated those points by buying Qantas tickets with HIS money or they came from work related flying that his company paid for."
I was unaware that those people who use frequent flyer points should be treated any differently to those who ‘paid’ for the ticket. I was mistakenly under the impression that I was a ‘customer’.
By your reasoning it seems that each ticket should be stamped with a code allowing the cabin crew to see who really deserves service and who doesn’t. If I were to travel on a full fare ticket, which I paid for, or one, which my company paid for, should I be treated differently in that instance as well? Who pays is irrelevant to the service provider. Service to the customer is all that counts.
Leanne7: These ppl just need to get over it. In reference to this particular topic, this person could have easily earned the FF points on JQ then booked a QF flight using them, could he not? As Mobi LAME said did this person even earn the FF points themselves or were the tickets all paid for by their company? Or maybe they even did a name transfer with the FF points that were earned by a family member?
I fail to see the relevance of this comment when I am clearly discussing service and expectations.
I was particularly shocked to read the post by Vee Von Kutt and would like to cover a few points here. Vee Von, I simply travelled as a pax on this flight so therefore fail to see the relevance of this comment: "Remember that Jetstar is the Devil Spawn of your beloved Qantas. I will respond to some of your points."
I didn’t create Qantas or Jetstar, and it seems you are blamming me, a customer, for their short comings. Let’s be realistic here.
"Fair enough mate – It’s not for you, or for many others, but LCCs have enabled many others to travel cheaply.
1. The seating arrangement issue is being addressed
2. Qantas’ check in is any thing but great these days
3. The ‘user pays for everything’ with Qantas anyway."
Point 2. I was not discussing Qantas – I was discussing the service I received from Jetstar.
"My heart bleeds for you. Let’s get the violins out for this suited up battler! Oh the thought of a ruffled suit jacket – Those creases are oh so hard to get out.
1. Can’t really blame this one on Jetstar mate – It’s your beloved Qantas’ fault that they put you on a Jetstar flight.
2. Use you’re your excellent eyesight next time. Or ask Qantas to spell it out for you."
I think you may be missing the point. To the travelling passenger, they don’t know the ins-and-outs of code sharing. I ended up on a Jetstar flight and was under the impression that they were responsible for the call to inform me of delays. Remember – it is not only what happens, but how it is perceived by the passenger that counts. If the passenger perceives that it is someone’s fault – then to them, it is.
"So what is really the problem here? It all got sorted out. I don’t know – but I would say 50/50 a Qantas stuff up in the reservation system. Jetstar sorted it our for you."
I think the problem here is a systemic failure in the way information is transmitted. Again another thing to annoy the customer and give them a bad first impression. You might notice in my story, there are a number of little things that add up to make a bigger complaint. If there weren’t, my story would have been two sentences, and probably not even written at all.
"Remember Jetstar are the Devil Spawn of Qantas."
Remember that I’m a paying pax, not the MD of either company.
"Communication within any large organization can break down quickly."
Communication can and does break down, but this is exactly my point. The communication should be addressed so as to stop the passengers from receiving poor service and blaming the wrong people.
"Crank up the violins guys, and get out the tissues! Blame the over priced stale sandwiches on Jetstar – That would be right – you have obviously allowed your jaded bigotry to bias your opinion. However in fairness to you $8 may be a little on the lean side – The Qantas vouches I have seen are in the order of $14, but hardly worth getting worked up about mate."
Nowhere in the story do I blame Jetstar for the sandwiches. I am commenting on the fact that if they are going to give you vouches, they should be of sufficient value to be useful. If the going rate for a sanga is $7 and a drink $4, wouldn’t it make sense to give a voucher for $11? This is another one of those ‘small’ things that I mentioned that go to make up a good service. If I had been given three vouches, which got us all a sandwich and a drink, I would have made no comment.
What Jetstar didn’t put you up in the Hilton for a few hours – how…how….how…Stingy!
"Qantas never have delays, but…..but…..but….. if they did I bet they would put us up in the Hilton!"
Never expected them to put me up. My comment is to do with the fact that if I had been called in the first place, I wouldn’t be at the airport (thus saving Jetstar $16 dollars in vouchers). It is ridiculous to think they would put us in a hotel for a few hours, but not ridiculous to think they should call.
"Automated phone services are pathetic – no argument. However, once again this is hardly uniquely a Jetstar problem. "
I agree, but how about printing a phone number on the ticket and having an automated ‘service’ that works properly.
"As a loyal (But obviously slow learning) Qantas passenger I will save you some time also. Bare in mind that Jetstar are the Devil Spawn of Qantas.
1. Collectively Qantas treat there own like pond scum
2. Collectively Qantas treat there customers like the bottom dwellers that feed off pond scum
3. Collectively Qantas treat Jetstar (and the staff) like the excretion that scum sucking bottom dwellers pump out of their nether regions!
So if it was Qantas’ responsibility to call you, then it is no surprise to me that you were left in the dark. Good on that ‘real person’ to have the honesty to suggest you call in future."
The customer should never see internal politics of a company – they should see a transparent service.
Admittedly communication is obviously a problem that not only Jetstar, but the Qantas group should address. Yes the entire Qantas group – Qantas Link also!
If it was addressed, another point would be removed from my story – it’s getting shorter every second now. There is an old saying "Death by a thousand cuts".
"Would you like some syrup with your waffle sir????"
No thanks, just a phone call to keep me informed about what is happening.
I’m prepared to give the Flight Attendants the benefit of the doubt here as you are obviously at the point of blaming Jetstar about a jock itch! Sure they may have gathered near the toilets at some point – but did they spend the duration of the flight there? If so – inexcusable, if not however– then stop embellishing the argument.
No embellishment here. Again I never said the remained there for the ‘entire’ flight, but they were there for a lot of it. I go back to my comment about being under trained. When the going got tough (a number of disgruntled vocal passengers) they got going! There was one bloke who spent time with a passenger trying to calm her, but the majority tried to keep their distance.
"1. Qantas’ good name is on the nose.
2. That brilliant Captain that you have exalted to some god-like status was probably either doing as he was told or following company protocol that may or may not exist now. Did he pay for the drinks himself? Would it still happen at Qantas today? – Maybe? I don’t know as I have never seen it – I am sure some fellow diehard PPruners (The majority of which hate/fear Jetstar infinitely more than you) may shed some light on this point. Sure it was a nice thing to do and probably would have been appropriate in this situation too.
Point 1. Not to late to fix it if they want to (besides, my article was about the service I received on a Jetstar flight, not a Qantas flight)
Point 2. You seem to be arguing for me here. Make it company policy that allows some discretion on the staff’s behalf. "Tonight’s entertainment is on the house".
"Sir, I notice your kids are a bit tired and upset, would it help if they watched a video – free of charge?"
Such a little gesture to remind me that I am important to their business, and if you know anything about customer psychology, you might realise that people want to feel like they are valued. A free video or a drink just might do it. Who knows, I might even go home, complain to my friends about the lack of phone call, the excessive 10 hour delay, but say "they were really good, we got a free lunch and they let us use one of those video things to help calm down little Johnnie"
Having the food onboard is a good tip mate. Same problem at Eastern (and I make the presumption that it would be the same at Qantas) – I understand that it’s a Qantas group policy that if catering is not there then the flight will not be delayed. It sucks I’m sure for the customers, but once again not uniquely a Jetstar problem. I can assure you the cabin crew cringed when they saw the catering was missing! They are human too!
Of course they are – but I go back to training and passing information. No PA to explain why there was no food.
"Once again mate you’re having a go at the crew. I’m tipping you flew on an A320? If so the cabin crew can’t change the temperature, that’s the sole responsibility of the flight crew. It’s a pain when it gets to hot/cold – sure. There are other possibilities though, i.e. the aircraft had been in for maintenance so something may still be faulty, or a setting may be slightly out. Did they sort the temperature issue out? You may not have seen one of the cabin crew on the intercom asking the pilots to "take a couple of logs off the fire".
Yes I am having a go at the crew. I don’t subscribe to this "it’s someone else’s fault, lets not actually blame someone because they might get upset" philosophy. They crew were not up to the task.
If there was something wrong with the air conditioning and the crew couldn’t change the temp, perhaps an intercom call informing the passengers would help. Again, if they knew that there was a fault, (instead of leaving me thinking they didn’t care or weren’t trained), they should inform the pax. This way we could complain to our friends about how hot it was, and say, "but it wasn’t the actual crew, it seems the aircraft had a fault – just wasn’t our night! They were really good and kept the bottles of water coming"
"Thank God I’m not back down the back. I have seen your type and I wouldn’t have the patience to tolerate you. …..You Toff! If there is more to your story then elaborate on the above comment (and don’t embellish it!)."
If you had been on the flight with me, you would have noted that I was either walking the aisle with my son, or sitting quietly in my seat typing on my computer. When I did ask for the temperature to be turned down, I did it in a polite fashion. I was never rude to anyone (unhappy is a different thing) and made no noise about the flight.
I embellished nothing about the story. There was a lady passing a sick bag around collecting details from the passengers in order to make some kind of ‘class action complaint’ and when it got to me there were almost as many signatures and phone numbers as there were people on board.
"Is that damned drink the only thing that would have placated you?"
No, but it would have gone a very long way.
P.S.
1. Pull you head in!
2. Happy ironing, you Toff!
No need for a personal attack. This is not a very professional comment from someone working in the industry - –highlighting you work for (and therefore REPRESENT QantasLink). Might I suggest that instead of blaming me – the customer, you might look towards your company and It’s approach. You appear (from your post) to be hostile to customers complaints. This is exactly the kind of lack of professionalism am referring to.
I wrote this in order to highlight what I see as a number of areas that Jetstar is failing to provide service. I have obviously offended you, not my intention, but trust that you can look at these faults with a level head and perhaps address them internally (if they occur in your company).
The title "Jetstar Service?" is probably a bad name, as Qantas have some issues here as well. Perhaps "Airline Service" or "Service" would have been better. Remember without us complaining/annoying/frustrating pax, you would not have a job. I suggest you try and keep us instead of palming us off.
I haven't complained to JetStar, because I think more people are now aware of my trip because of the net, than would be if one person in the complaints department got a letter from me.