PPRuNe Forums - View Single Post - Hercules ESF - technical, tactical and service issues. (Title edited)
Old 15th Jun 2006, 10:16
  #109 (permalink)  
Lima Juliet
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: UK
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MY LENGTHY ANSWER

THIS POST QUOTES FROM OPEN SOURCE ON THE INTERNET

Ok, I've been chastised for knowing F*** All and I've now trawled the redacted BOI and the internet to check that I haven't been holding the wrong end of the stick.

My point 1: XV179 was hit by more than just bullets is borne out in the AOC's comments:
There is doubt about the exact sequence of event and whether the loss of the aircraft was solely due to _________, most probably________, or due to two seperate types of weapon, namely____________ and some unidentified projectile, possibly______________. Given the impossibility of gaining the physical evidence, the Board have correctly left the debate open. However, the final report by the Air Accident Investigation Branch states that "The evidence points very strongly to the aircraft having been caught in some form of coordinated attack involving multiple weapons sites". Acknowledging the lack of hard evidence, but based on his expert opinion, he concludes that the two scenarios involving different weapon systems are much more viable as hypotheses that the scenarios involving a single agency. It is my view, therefore, that the loss was more probably caused by the coincident action of two weapon systems than by one.
The latter half of the BOI's summary was:
Furthermore, the Board conclude that the explosive seperation could have been caused solely by___________ or a combination of ________ and another _______________ impacting the wing in the vicinity of the seperation boundary.
You can't keep putting bullets in the spaces as it doesn't make sense.

My point 2: That unguided rockets were potentially used, they even had them in the disgraceful video they released. The Iraqi Terrorists have Russian and French sourced rockets such as 68mm SNEB - taken from the internet:
One of the most frightening examples of how the militants put French weapons to use against the Americans came Oct. 26, 2003. That morning, at about 6 o'clock, they bombarded the Rashid Hotel in Baghdad with French missiles. The French rockets nearly killed Wolfowitz, whom Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld has called "the brains" of the Pentagon. Half the missiles fired at Wolfowitz's hotel were French-made Matra SNEB 68-millimeter rockets, with a range of two to three miles. The others were Russian in origin.
My point 3: There is no evidence that ESF would have definately saved XV179. See the Stn Cdr's comments, an experienced Herc pilot:
Although our Hercules aircraft had suffered hits in the fuel tank area by ___________ in recent months, it is clear that there is a vulnerability when a fuel/air mix forms in the ullage. Foam and inert gas systems can prevent this explosive mix from developing and may have reduced the damage to XV179's wing.
The CINC goes on to say:
However, there is no guarantee that, had XV179 been fitted with such a system, the outcome would have been different.
Where does all that lot leave me? Why don't we leave the decision to fit ESF to the experts? - at the moment I see no indivisible evidence to support the fact that it would have saved XV179. Therefore, it must surely go into the decision and planning process to decide when, how and which aircraft they will fit it to; and if deemed exceptionally neccesary an Urgent Operational Requirement will be raised. I'm not sure the lobbying is the right way to do business as it looks like we're trying to find someone to blame.

On a final note. The French, and others who didn't join in Gulf War 2 (such as Germany), were allowing their arms to be supplied to Iraq. I know this first hand having had Roland fired at me and it could have been part of this batch (from the internet):
On April 8 came the downing of Air Force Maj. Jim Ewald's A-10 Thunderbolt fighter over Baghdad and the discovery that it was a French-made Roland missile that brought down the American pilot and destroyed a $13 million aircraft. Ewald, one of the first U.S. pilots shot down in the war, was rescued by members of the Army's 54th Engineer Battalion who saw him parachute to earth not far from the wreckage.
Army intelligence concluded that the French had sold the missile to the Iraqis within the past year, despite French denials.
A week after Ewald's A-10 was downed, an Army team searching Iraqi weapons depots at the Baghdad airport discovered caches of French-made missiles. One anti-aircraft missile, among a cache of 51 Roland-2s from a French-German manufacturing partnership, bore a label indicating that the batch was produced just months earlier.
Now, a hypothetical question. Why didn't the report mention unguided or SNEB rockets? Hypothetical answer - politically embarrassing? That is just my cynical mind working...

I still stand by what I have said all along; I am not convinced that ESF would have saved XV179. In addition, I remain unconvinced that ESF should take priority over our other procurement programs (ie. A Typhoon with air-ground capability, FJ TCAS, anticipators for Puma, DIRCM for Sentry, the list goes on...). I also feel dreadfully sorry for the families of the crew.

LJ

By the way, I don't go to France and Germany for holidays anymore out of principle!
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