PPRuNe Forums - View Single Post - Ex SAA over 60's should they stay or should they go?
Old 14th Jun 2006, 21:07
  #7 (permalink)  
Shrike200
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Behind 1480mm RHA equivalent
Posts: 687
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I'd like to chip in some points here, if I may.

I doubt the scareways guys are resented personally - it's more a resentment of what their presence means, although there is one rumour based point that could be a thorny issue, as I mention later.

Perhaps some history: We all know that Nwide has always payed the lowest of salaries in the local airline market. And, many guys had to pay for their rating, often at a bit of a rip off. However, this was made up for to a small degree by having a relatively fast progression to Captain, where a living could be made. Hours were accumulated fast, and it provided a useful leg up in the game.

However, the times, they are a-changin': Fast forward to the present -

The current crop of Nwide FO's (who will be directly affected by the influx of the skygods) are no longer the 800-hour-pay-as-you-go-candidates. These guys/girls now have (had, actually, they've all been online a while now) between 1500-3500 hours experience on entering Nwide, with instructional + contract or other airline, multi crew/turbine/mediums and in quite a few cases, jet experience, sometimes all of the above. These guys and girls are of the level of what Comair has traditionally accepted for FO applicants (in my opinion) and but for chance and the constricted number of places available, would be there instead (based on conditions and salary). However, 'You take what you can get' in this game. They still, however, live on the old salaries, but in many cases are older. (An element of assumption there, I'll admit, but I believe it's valid given the higher levels of experience than in the past.)

So, amonst CavortingCheetah's other erroneous comments, this one :"The young chaps in Nationwide and other carriers are actually the priviliged pilots and are doing very well indeed to be where they are today with such limited experience to offer their industry." is now also out of date to a certain degree, if he referred to the traditional picture of Nwide low time pay-as-you-go FO's. And young guys/girls have to start somewhere, surely? We weren't all born flying 737's!

While I'm quoting CC, what on earth is this??
"That is all very well but to discrimate against someone because of their age, whether that discrimination be self imposed or not is ageist and perhaps sexist as well as being possibly racist."
Racist?!? Huh?! Oh well, whatever...and this? "....far too self inflated either for their own good or for the inherent ethos of the industry which they profess to serve?" You're talking about the Nwide FO's there - do you have some specific beef with any of them or something? The one's I know are all real nice guys, down to earth, friendly, and proffessional...you're entitled to your opinion, but it should be clear I think you're wrong. In fact, I think you went a bit overboard on the whole.

Onwards ho: The real nail in the coffin however, is the current rumour amongst Nwide crew of new requirements for command: 4 years with the company and/or 2500 hours on type. THIS really spells doom for any hope of a life with them. 4 years on an Nwide FO salary? Who would want that, if it can be avoided? By, for example, a trip to the sandpit, amongst other places. There is possibly an extra element of resentment being generated here all by itself since it's apparently not clear whether this is some sort of requirement from some governing body, OR whether it's the skygods who can now dictate policy trying to put this in place, and therefore make it company policy to deny the quicker path to command that has historically been in place in Nwide for some time. Thus ensuring a place for their buddies from scareways to come and play, for now and the future. And believe me, while people may hear rumours of SAA pensions for these guys being low, Nwide FO's all reckon it's stratospheric. Thats apart from the fact that even if it is low now (again, I'd like to see proof of that to believe it), they've been earning the best salaries in the local industry to pad their nest egg anyway.

Make no mistake - despite the quicker path to command in Nwide, it wasn't necessarily stunningly easy. Nwide have been operating 737's for some time, and the older chaps there, in particular one sharp fanged old dog in the older Nwide training structure, weren't short of experience on type and route, and gave plenty of hard times apparently. Nonetheless, the SAA guys can certainly share a wealth of experience, that is without doubt - it can only do good.

So, denying a path to command, by both presence and now possibly policy? It might generate some resentment of the situation, sure. But I believe Nwide FO's are too professional to allow that sort of thing to show in their work, or even have that attitude in the first place. Indeed (CavortingCheetah!), you'll be happy to know that all the guys I spoke to shared the belief that it's a great opportunity to learn a lot.

Too long, as usual. Sorry.
Shrike200 is offline