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Old 17th Apr 2004, 13:07
  #91 (permalink)  
rjsquirrel
 
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Even the implication that comparitive losses in Iraq reflect some glory on the Cobra is ridiculous.

The Army has hundreds more aircraft, and thousands more troops, in Iraq and everywhere. The losses reflect that, and little else.

The current Marine Cobras (the W) are retreaded designs, updated of course, but still fairly poor imitations of modern aircraft. The Apache is considerably tougher, and much better equipped, by all accounts (except Bell's). In a system by system match, the cobra falls far short, but is used by the Marines because it is not an Apache, as the Marines are paranoid about buying anything that the Army has, lest Congress question why we need a Marine Corps.

The UH-1Y is an example. Having rejected the Black Hawk, the Marines built an entirely new aircraft (rumor has it everything had to be redesigned, in spite of the optimistic "upgrade" plans that Bell sold.) This new aircraft will sell for more than a Black Hawk, but carries less than 2/3 the troops, and has about 15 knots less cruise speed, and a hundred miles less range. When the actual performance is published, we will see what a flop it is.

The AH-1Z will be in similar stead, compared to Apache.

Regarding any comparison between weapon systems and their use in Iraq, take care. Iraq is now an occupation, and the urban situations are actually police duties, trying to quell rioters and insurgents in civilian populated areas. The military is left, yet again holding the bag for failed political leaders. Short of sterilizing the entire area, there is no military solution, no tactic and no miracle weapon system that will cure the ill. And no lesson about military hardware that can be drawn from the situation.

This forum is not a political one, but the lessons of Iraq do not concern tactics or equipment, they are all political, ppruners.

B. Sousa is dead wrong, the Active Army has no single engine helos except the H-58 and H-6, and it has few of them. The US Army is the largest helicopter organization in the world, with about 5,000 helicopters, including 1500 Black Hawks, 800 Apaches and an assortment of other helos in the hundreds each. The USMC has a few hundred rotorcraft of all types.
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