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Old 9th Apr 2005, 16:08
  #387 (permalink)  
HeliComparator
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Aberdeen
Age: 67
Posts: 2,094
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Nick - are you by any chance related to General Mcarthy (or however its spelt)? There is a remarkable similarity between the two of you. For him, anyone who disagreed was a Communist and should be shot on principle, for you anyone who disagrees clearly works for EC (so by definition should also be shot).

By the way, I have no idea what a Black Hawk's transmission oil system is like, so that comment is not much help to me Nick

Since you are not going to oblige us with any actual information, I had a look in the S92 flight manual (early version dated 2003 I admit) and it seems that there are only two things that measure gearbox oil pressure, one called "MGB PRES" which I think is a warning light, and one called "MGB PRESS" which I think is the gauge (which of course is on the screens). Sorry, I am already a bit confused by the similarity in the names, but I am sure its much clearer if you have done the groundschool course! (EC also have from time to time chosen some confusing caption names so this is not unique to Sky)

Anyway, with only two sensors its difficult to see how you would know that one of the two pumps has failed, though Nick won't tell us what the pressure would be in this case - perhaps low enough to attract attention? Clearly Nick's statement that it "is dual in every way" is rubbish - there may be two pumps but that's about all the dualling there is. Of course there are two sensors - that is a requirement to cope with the possibility of a sensor failure that might otherwise lure you into a ditching, but it seems they are a light and a gauge that measure the same thing (could be wrong but the Oracle won't come up with the diagram).

The following is copied from the S92 Flight Manual (probably get sued for breach of copyright now!)

Make of it what you will but its interesting to note that if the pressure continues to fall after you have activated the magic switch, its a "Land immediately" item. (this is because there is no true dry running time in an S92). As I understand it the Magic Switch (aka MGB Oil Bypass Switch) cuts off the external pipework to the oil cooler etc to contain leaks. Of course its no good having lots of oil left in the sump if both pumps are duff. I am pretty sure that this was the case in the Norsk incident (there were certainly no leaks, so pressure falling to 5 psi is surely double pump failure - double pump partial failure to be exact as there was some residual pressure.)

According to his last post, Nick's idea of Land Immediately is that its OK to fly for 100s of hours.

start quote:

MAIN GEAR BOX OIL SYSTEM FAILURE

Symptom:

MGB OIL PRES or MGB OIL HOT or MGB CHIP or ACC 1 CHIP or ACC 2 CHIP

CAUTION
The main AC generators are cooled by main gearbox oil. Loss of cooling oil may result in mechanical failure of the generators and loss of main electrical power.

Confirming:

Main gearbox oil pressure is less than 35 psi, or
Main gearbox oil temperature is greater than 130 degrees.

Action:

1. Descend to minimum safe altitude.
2. APU - ON
3. APU GEN - ON
4. Land as soon as possible.

If the MGB OIL PRESS warning indicator also illuminates:

1. MGB OIL BYPASS switch - BYPASS

WARNING
BYPASS must be selected within 5 seconds after the warning indicator has illuminated to ensure an adequate quantity of oil remains in the gearbox. DO NOT activate BYPASS if the warning indicator is not illuminated.

2. Land as soon as possible.

If MGB oil pressure continues to decrease or there are loud/unusual noises, unusual vibrations or progressively increasing power required to maintain flight:

3. Land immediately.

end quote

Its a bit difficult to understand exactly what is going on without the diagram that I asked for - never mind I'll try to see if I can get it another way.

In summary, I maintain that they would (should) have ditched had they not been so close to an installation.

So thats all for now folks - off to put on my ear defenders in preparation for Nicks personalised response!

Off to my baguettes and vin rouge: Oops - what a giveaway. Merdre - How do I edit this thing.....

HC

ps Sasless, this is one of the posts where I might be "mostly right" because I am trying to sort out the facts in the face of lack of information from Nick "all bluster and no facts" Lappos
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