PPRuNe Forums - View Single Post - Descending through cloud without a procedure
Old 16th May 2006, 23:14
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DFC
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Euroland
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dwshimoda,

One could have 2 VORs, 2 DMEs and 2 ADFs but if the track is not taking you to or from one of the VORs or NDBs within useable range you can not "track" them. You can however fix your position from the information they provide.

There is also VDF for the situation of having none of the above.

Failing that most of Europe has radar and some unit can give a fix.

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Dude~,

The answer is that provided you can fix your position using NDB(s) within the DOC, or VORs within the DOC and 50nm of the station, with DME if available, you should descend to not lower than 1000ft above the highest obstacle within 10nm of the indicated aircraft position (The 10nm being made up of the 5nm possible error and the 5nm you have to be away from obstacles).

The best place to be just after reaching MSA in your scenario and discovering that you are not visual is back up on top again. That makes the flying easier and gives you many oportunities for;

1. Calling the radar unit you used and finding out where the nearest hole is (if any) and what the weather is at various places.

2. Spotting a suitable hole yourself

3. Diverting to a suitable place where you can either descend to a lower MSA or to the same MSA but some pilot has reported a higher ceiling. Remember Fohn effect from the met?

4. Divert (radar vectors) to an aerodrome for an SRA........if you need more than a non-precision approach then you realy did get yourself in a pickle and if that is the case then ATC will pass the procedure details to you!

If operating on a DR track of any length, the allowance gets very big very quickly. Can't remember the exact figure but from memory when leaving the last fix, the area to be considered for obstacles quickly expands to 60nm each side and at some stage (I can't remember when) to 120nm.

You say that Yes I do have an IR, but no I have not really used it, and frankly find the idea of using it is daunting since the training for the IR was a entirely on pre-planned school routes.

Perhaps you should consider the school training provided as being the correct and safe way to operate. By that I mean do not go IFR unless you have planned the trip or part of the trip IFR and have the required charts, weather and planning completed.

If you like the idea of getting above the clag in the local area then take the time in the planning stage to check out the navaids you will use to define the area once above cloud. Make sure that you have a good MSA calculated. Carry diversion charts and fuel.

Don't push your luck with descending below MSA if the conditions are not right (and that includes visibility below cloud as well as ceiling!). Shame to spend 8 to 10K+ on an IR just to make a splat on some hill.

Regards,

DFC
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