Tan, Yup, I guess that at first look it seems odd that no hyds = very bad news, but if you consider the design philosophy of the hyd system, things look a little bit brighter. The ptu,rat,ylo elec pump,blu elec pump and 2 edps make for plenty redundancy - forgive me for any omissions, I'm not looking at the fcom! Interesting debate, nevertheless! And speaking of the bright side, there was no X-wind at lgw last night!!. .Cheers all,. .mcdhu <img src="smile.gif" border="0">