The way the integration was arranged with KLC in the past was not like the proposed deal above: date of entering the company. It was a mixture that hurt the people with more years within KLC more than it did the people that had just recently joined. The only difference I can see between the present cross-over option and the one in 2002/3 is the period in which one could keep function/pay. It all looks like negotiating techniques and probably KLM anticipates a return offer from BALPA. I think joining KLM at the bottom of the list with function/pay protection is reasenably fair. Should Air France force me into such a deal I would take it. Someone mentioned function and pay protection is a pay cut. I think this is not true: if you wouldn't cross over what would then be the difference? It is only true for those who are not yet in a command position, the rest effectively have no pay effects should they be frozen in their captain seat with belonging pay untill they catch up on the seniority. Personally I think joining in 2002/3 would have been a nicer option. The best possible and thinkable result BALPA is going to get is an entry right below those people who crossed over in 2002/3. This will cause a riot within VNV tough...