Sad to see this thread degenerate, almost from the first reply, into the slanging match I was attempting to get away from by opening the new thread. (
I’m tempted to add my tuppence worth as well, particularly on Australian ATC, but I’m going to put away my tape measure, zip up my fly, and let it remain a mystery as to whether I’ve got a bigger one than the ATC bloke (or bloke-ette!!!) on the other end of the radio.)
So, avoiding the personal barb posts and the slanging off from both sides, and attempting to paraphrase the posts that actually came up with constructive suggestions, we have the following contributions:
1.
Restrict the ‘minors’. I must say that I believe they are only a very small part of the problem and restricting them is unlikely to make a huge difference.
2.
Slot times. But more than one respondent says they’re unlikely to work because of the difficulties they would create with nearby ATC agencies. I tend to agree with the naysayers on this point.
3.
The A330. Slippery little sucker, we’d all agree, and with the best of intentions, many of its drivers find it difficult to adhere to ATC instructions and remain within EK company configuration requirements (which have been laid down in an attempt to avoid unstable approaches and unnecessary go arounds). To this, we could add -
4.
Some EK pilots choose not to obey speed control. I have to admit to seeing this myself, when I’ve had FO’s adopt a speed other than what we’ve been told to take up. So I can only assume other captains condone or commit this.
5.
Less than perfect co-ordination between UAE Area Control and Dubai Approach. If anyone believes there is no room for improvement here, they spend their working days at a desk and
not in a cockpit or on a radar scope.
6.
Poor R/T discipline (the clear inference being, ‘by some EK pilots’). I have to plead guilty of that myself on occasion at oh dark thirty at the end of a long night’s grind.
7. The gem from
Outta Heresoon
I find generally the most limiting item in the equation is the regulations the controllers have to follow
I think this hits the nail squarely on the head if we want to properly address the problem that is the subject of this thread.
8. At the risk of causing offence, it’s probably worth adding the rest of his comment
…with perhaps a smidgon of the controllers’ lack of appreciation for what the latest generation of aircraft are capable of and the pilot's inability to manage it properly.
I think few would argue that this can sometimes be a part of the problem. Bring on the famil. flights and I think this problem would disappear in a matter of months.
9.
Nimmer’s very astute observation:
…the one thing we are all in agreement is that the ATC procedures in the UAE need to be changed. Sad thing is the one person who isn't listening is the regulator!!!!
The current procedures are costing the operators a lot of money daily in totally unnecessary fuel burn, so much so that I can’t believe they’re not screaming for, or demanding, major changes to the system immediately if not sooner. But I suppose we’re making up part of those losses by delaying starting our APUs until we’re approaching the stand. Holding aside, surely it would not be impossible to come up with
discrete arrivals procedures for each runway that will allow
a constant descent to the ILS glide part? The current below 13,000’ requirement at ESAVO (sp?) etc ensures a fuel gobbling drag in over God alone knows how many miles for every aircraft in the arrivals sequence if the approach isn’t a straight in. Surely the 4Ts and the 3Vs could have different height requirements at these points to allow a constant descent?
10. I’ve saved the last suggestion I gleaned from the posts for last and in stating it, I’m NOT slagging off the controllers on UAE Area Control. The problem isn’t the controllers, but is stated clearly in Points 7 and 9.
If Dubai controlled the holds they could then arrange what ever spacing they required.
I have to agree 110% with Schnowzer on this point. Let’s have close in holds that will allow us to remain clean (ie, 230 knots or above) until we commence the approach. DESDI and BUBIN could still be used in exceptional circumstances, but let Dubai Approach look after any holds on a near normal day. And let’s have STARS that allow a constant descent to the FAF if holding isn’t required.
Vorschit and Zomp, I understand where you’re coming from, but… all too often, throwing a couple of tonnes on for Mum and the kids simply isn’t an option.