Reply to PPrune criticisms of PTC – 1st May 2006.
In response to recent claims made on this forum I would like to respond as follows. My comments are based on my interpretations of the various claims made on this forum and are entirely without prejudice.
1. Re: person referring to themselves as “PigsFly” comments made on 27th April at 10:47 28th April at 08:54 and 29th April at 11:11.
Comment: Ground Briefing Charges raised at PTC from €20 to €40 per hour. These charges are not for Long Briefings but for “everytime an instructor is in your vicinity” and for “general Chats”
Response: These claims are factually incorrect. Ground School charges are for Ground School. Preflight briefings are not charged extra neither are any forms of “general chats”.
Generally we find that we have to conduct specific groundschool sessions on pertinent topics which students need to improve their knowledge on prior to being at a standard capable of obtaining a first time pass in their flight test. The time required varies with each student. We conduct group ground school lessons with students at the same level in order to minimize the cost to the individual. The rate for this is €30 per hour.
Comment: Management has adapted an aggressive charging regime.
Response: This is untrue. Management of PTC is of the highest caliber and conducts their business affairs on a fair and reasonable basis. There is no strategy in PTC to be aggressive in our Management methods.
Comment: PTC guarantees F/O positions.
Response: This is untrue. PTC does however guarantee an airline interview for graduates of PTC who reach a standard that we consider acceptable to the airlines we deal with. This explains why 98% of our graduates are in airline jobs.
Comment: PTC will follow its failed predecessor at Waterford.
Response: I don’t fully understand this comment. I was not aware that PTC had a predecessor at Waterford. Perhaps this refers to a training school which existed some time in the past.
Comment: Pickings to thin down in the South East of Ireland.
Response: PTC is operating at full capacity with students from all over Europe USA & Australia. I don’t think that the availability of students in the South East of Ireland is a significant Market driver towards the viability of PTC. As a JAA FTO we are addressing the market in the JAA jurisdiction and beyond for ICAO to JAA conversions.
Comment: Time frame required for groundschool gross understatement of what students will be billed for.
Response: Times in all aspects of Pilot training including those published by JAA are minimum times required. The actual time required will depend largely on the student, his/her abilities and the study time he / she is prepared to devote to theoretical knowledge learning outside the college. This scenario is not particular to PTC it is I generally accepted norm in the industry. The primary objective at PTC is that we will strive at all times to train to a standard whereby the student will obtain a first time pass in all his / her tests and exams and obtain quality employment in a reasonable timeframe.
Comment: PTC is involved in “piecemeal charging for Groundschool”
Response: This is untrue. All Flying Training Slots are pre-booked on our computerized reservation system. A schedule of these is given to the student at the outset. Training slots are carried out in accordance with this schedule or in accordance with necessary alterations depending on weather, student progress and many other factors. Charges are made only when the training slot is completed.
Comment: PTC is a “bunch of pickpockets”
Response: This claim is categorically untrue and unnecessarily damaging to an FTO whose employees are of the highest caliber in the industry and all of whom operate to the highest standards of integrity and honesty. I invite the claimant on behalf of our employees and Management to substantiate this statement.
2. Re: person referring to themselves as “Flybear” comments made on 27th April at 23:06 and 29th April 11:11.
Comment: PTC charge €60 per hour for ME/IR groundschool.
Response: This is correct. I believe that this is a reasonable rate per hour for senior instructors conducting ME / IR Groundschool. PTC pays instructors 50% of the hourly rate charged by the College to students. The balance goes towards overheads and towards further investment in developing the College. As part of our strategic development plan we are not taking any profits from the business in the first five years of operations. I have always believed that instructors should be paid as professionals for their very valuable work. My dentist charges me the equivalent of €150 per hour for consultation. His training and investment in his career is not any greater than that of a senior Flight and/or Groundschool instructor.
Comment: PTC is suffering from “Greed”
Response: While this may be the perception of some this claim could not be further from the truth. The costs associated with operating a business in any developed country these days are substantial. There are very few commercial enterprises in this industry that are in a position to be greedy…. Flying schools certainly not. If we were making excessive charges and cutting corners on our service level, quality of equipment or personal attention to our students I could understand such a claim being made but let me assure you this is not the case. I really think that before making such statements or using such words one should be better informed.
Comment: Groundschool is not good in PTC
Response: We are not perfect and we consistently strive to improve our standards. However I do believe that our instructors and the quality of our instruction is at a level which puts us at the forefront of the industry. If not why are the vast majority of our students obtaining first time passes and why are our graduates being employed in large numbers.
Comment: Instructors are made to do Groundschool by Management. They are “burning up time to keep management happy”
Response: This claim is untrue. The decision on a students need for groundschool is made by the instructor and / or the CFI. Nobody is forced to do Groundschool. Our instructors are of a caliber whereby I don’t think it would be possible to force them to do something that they considered incorrect or unnecessary. Our internal corporate culture is in fact the direct opposite whereby all employees are given latitude to express themselves and to carry out their duties at their own discretion within the scope of the Operations manual of the FTO.
Comment: Rumor that Accounts told Management that PTC was making money from Flying but not from Groundschool hence increases in charges.
Response: Our internal management structure does not lend itself to one division telling the other what to do. We regularly discuss issues and make decision accordingly. These discussions involve at least one person from each division of the College so up to 8 people can participate in such discussions. At the end of such discussion a number of decisions are agreed and implemented. Increases in all forms of charges can be included in such decisions. This is the way any professional well run business operates. Rumors are best ignored. It’s better to get factual information before making judgments.
Comment: PTC is advertising “guaranteed F/O positions.
Response: See response above.
3. Re: person referring to themselves as “PotKettleBlack” comments made on 28th April at 10:38
Comment: Instructors don’t actually see any of the cash.
Response: This claim is untrue. Instructors get 50% of the fee charged for groundschool. From the outset I have adapted the philosophy that the days of instructors working for charity were over as far as PTC was concerned. Instructors are hard working highly skilled people who are dedicated to their tasks and their industry. Unfortunately due to their level of dedication they are open to exploitation. At PTC we respect our instructors and we pay them accordingly. Gross earnings for instructors at PTC range from aprox. €2,500 to €5,500 per month.
4. Re: person referring to themselves as “TwoDead Dogs” comments made on 28th April at 15:00
Comment: It’s a Scam pure & simple.
Response: Can’t figure out where the evidence is to substantiate this claim. Let me assure you that this claim is factually incorrect. If you can substantiate this claim please forward your evidence to me. I assume that you are a pilot or student pilot. If so I urge you to desist from making such judgments on any issue unless that you have fully researched the facts.
5. Re: person referring to themselves as “Sprawler” comments made on 28th April at 15:36
Comment: Another FTO in Ireland getting a bad name. Flight training in Ireland is a joke.
Response: PTC has a very good reputation in Ireland and abroad. Please don’t make judgments based on spurious rumors. PTC has one primary objective which is to bring a high level of professionalism to the pilot training industry in Ireland and we are succeeding in this task. Were not perfect but we are as good as the best and better in some cases. Remember I was a student pilot at one time also and I experience the good and the bad in the industry.
Flight training in Ireland is now a serious industry. Ireland is in one of the most advantageous positions within Europe to becoming the centre of excellence for pilot training. Why ? because we have freely available airspace, some of the best weather in the British Isles (South East Ireland famous for its favorable micro climate) cheaper fuel, no VAT charges, no delays at airports queuing for taxy, takeoff and approach, minimal approach charges (€1.5 per approach at Waterford), freely available cheap accommodation etc. etc.
Substantial investment is being employed by PTC and as a result Ireland is been taken seriously by the international aviation community as a dominant centre for pilot training in the JAA jurisdiction.
I can see that you have formed your opinion about PTC from the other comments made on this forum. Might I suggest that you don’t take everything on this forum at face value. Instead I recommend that you research the facts first then perhaps reconsider your opinion on PTC. In this way you will find out for yourself what we are about and what we are achieving in Ireland.
6. Re: person referring to themselves as “Nibog” comments made on 29th April at 18:29
Comment: Approach the Boss with grievances.
Response: This is a very sensible comment. I welcome any feedback from students, prospective students, competing colleges and industry enthusiasts which will help to achieve our objectives. I don’t however agree with making anonymous claims on an anonymous forum for which there is no accountability. Anyone can make claims such as those made in this forum about an organization without having to provide any evidence. Competitors can misuse this forum to try to damage fellow competitors.
While I felt it necessary to provide this response to the various comments raised when they were brought to my attention, it is not my intention to make any further comment on this forum due to the fact that I am responding to unknown parties who choose to use pseudonyms. I will however respond to any comment or query which is sent to me by post or brought to my attention verbally by the person raising the concern and in this case I will deal sympathetically and positively with all concerns raised.
Might I suggest as a general point that people within the aviation industry that have genuine contribution to make to improving conditions within the industry might consider doing so on this and or other forums and that they might authenticate their points by putting their names to their comments. Comments made by people hiding behind pseudonyms are unlikely to be taken seriously. In addition, the use of pseudonyms allows those with a vested interest in damaging organizations and individuals the ability to do so without any accountability.
I hope that I have gone some way towards clarifying some issues and please feel free to write phone or e/mail me at any time if you wish to contribute to the success of the Pilot training college of Ireland.
With very best wishes to all in aviation
Yours Sincerely
Mike Edgeworth
Chief Executive Officer
The Pilot Training College of Ireland.