jondc9, you really don't seem to get it, do you? Whether the Queen, the pilots children or Uncle Tom Cobbly were on board is irrelevant in this debate. What you, a pilot with no B744 or long haul heavy jet experience would have done is returned to LAX. Fine. Accepted. What I or any other B744 pilot would have done is irrelevant. Some of us would have returned, others would have gone east and reviewed the situation and maybe diverted to JFK and some others may have continued further towards their destination.
The points being raised here are about the FAA making the decision to fine the airline because of the way they decided to interpret the regulations. So far, no one has been able to show that the regs were broken.
The B744 didn't lose an engine in some catastrophic failure. It suffered a surge at about 100' after take off with an EGT over temp (Max 1185?C) and low fluctuating RPM. ATC reported flames from the engine exhaust. The crew actioned the engine surge checklist but the engine continued to surge above idle and they decided to shut down the engine. They then consulted with their Maintrol and the decision was made to continue to LHR. What happened later is a totally separate issue and was due to being unable to get their planned oceanic level and not part of the initial reason this debate was resurrected.
You seem to be under the impression that I work for BA. Well, I don't, probably because my height to weight ratio didn't fit their HR matrix.
However, if you want to raise the 'generator' problem then at least have the decency to try and comprehend the fact that a B744, a four engined airliner, will have different systems and redundancies than anything you have ever flown. The B744 is able to dispatch with only 3 operative generators. We actually lost one after engine start so didn't even have to consult the MEL but we did anyway. The QRH just tells you to attempt one reset. It doesn't mention anything else. Maybe you had to land at the nearest airfield if you lost a generator on aircraft you have flown but on the B744 it is only a pilot awareness item.
Your lack of long haul, heavy aircraft operations once again shines through when you refer to "carrying a lame aircraft" and a nod and a wink to the inbound crew. Have you any idea of the turnaround time for a B744 on long haul ops? The inbound crew are long gone by the time we get to the aircraft and we rely on the Tech Log and the ground engineer for information on any carried defects. Oh my gawd! I mentioned 'defects'! Believe it or not, we are actually allowed to carry defects and the reason for that, believe it or not, is actually commercial expediency.
So, once again we learn that had you ever completed a B744 type rating and been employed by a B744 operator as a pilot, you would disrupt an operation when it was otherwise safe to continue and the manuals permitted continued operation. You would cost your company hundreds of thousands of dollars to put up your pax in hotels overnight as well as the knock on effects because you decided that operating with only three generators was just too unsafe. You didn't work for one of the US majors in chapter 11 did you?
Says a lot about why you have never done a B744 type rating then doesn't it!
To even raise the issue about the same airframe having another (different) engine problem a few weeks later only serves to show a total lack of understanding, so why raise it?
Your questions are irrelevant. The Queen on board? She doesn't fly with my airline but if she did the crew would still consider all the options and I'm sure Betty would respect their decisions too.
As for 'the final report on what caused the engine problem'... it doesn't matter. The crew carried out the QRH, talked with Maintrol who are able to read all the engine parameters and give any advice as necessary and nowhere was it written that they had to land at the nearest suitable airport because the B744 has so much redundancy with its systems.
On this side of the pond there is no such thing as 'a low fuel emergency'. If you ever had experience of long rage ops over here and you called a 'low fuel emergency' you would be told that unless you declared a mayday nothing would happen. All you need is the magic word 'mayday' and you get full attention and priority. If you need a sterile runway, for whatever reason, call a mayday and you can get it. There may be some extra paperwork later but it is the best way to handle the situation if you are unsure about the amount of useable fuel available.
At the end of the day, the pilot didn't make a mistake in judgement. In your opinion he did but then we all know how knowledgeable you are on B744 systems and long haul ops. The pilot made a decision based on all known factors, including the regulations, the limitations and performance of his a/c, the commercial problems and many other things. His decision to continue was based on his knowledge and experience of safe commercial operations for one of the biggest B744 operators in the world.
Each one of us would have reached a decision based on many factors, some which those with no B744 or long haul experience would not have considered, and whatever decision we reached would have been based on safety and commercial requirements, in that order.
As far as ego is concerned, try reading between the lines. We all know you think the pilot made a bad judgement call because of your 'experience' flying the B744 and your experience of long haul heavy jet ops. Those of us with less experience than you of the B744 keep pointing out why your argument is flawed and you keep coming back on here raising points on such diverse topics such as Al Capone and the Vulcan Bomber to mention a few, in some apparent attempt to persuade us that you are correct in your belief that the pilot made a bad error of judgement in deciding to continue the flight.
I think I'd better stop here or I'll be breaching my own rules of debate by letting this keep on going around in circles. Heck, I'll even let you have the last word but I've no doubt that others will not let it rest. Here's my opinion of your opinion:
Your opinion that the pilot made a bad judgement call is based on ignorance of the facts and appears to be solely based on the fact that you feel the need to voice an opinion because you have had a pilots licence at some time or other.
My opinion, however, is that the pilot did what he believed was best for everyone and that he made his decision based on all the facts that were available at the time. In addition, he did not endanger anyone or break any rules. It was neither the right or the wrong decision.
I base my opinion on the fact that I am current on the B744 and long haul ops and the fact that I have a copy of the ASR and the CMC Engine Exceedance Report. I don't base it on the fact that I have flown some obscure aircraft type that in no way resembles a B744 or that I have an artistic streak that makes me feel as though I am an expert commentator for Chicken Noodle News.
Over to you (if you must!)