Chinook - Still Hitting Back 3 (Merged)

[walter kennedy]

Shy Torque
I just put the reference to Captain Hadlow as I came across it whilst digging up other references (which, of the top of my head, were from Sqn Ldr Burke and possibly Boeing somewhere in a report – will get to it soon and post).
The point I have made is that this is a real manoeuvre (as opposed to a struggle for control) and should have been pointed out by twin rotor pilots on this thread as a possibility – yet again the opportunity to get this straight is ignored. I believe that it has special relevance in this incident as it suggests that they were surprised at crossing the shoreline when they did and took emergency action in those last few seconds ( the mist started right on the shoreline and so they would have realised that they were in strife on entering it/ crossing the shoreline, etc.) thus pointing to a nav/ judgment of distance error.
XM147 & Brian
Regarding speed
I rather thought the judgment of the a/c’s speed by Mr Holbrook had been thoroughly dealt with by post 1934 and others immediately subsequent – there was no way he could have been close to judging the speed of a large, unfamiliar a/c without a familiar object near it. The calculation of long term average speed would have had to have it at cruising speed in the area in which he observed it, etc..
John Blakeley
You wrote <<In reality the fact that the waypoint change took place well before the Mull (and nobody can say with certainty exactly where) indicates that the crew had every intention of staying VFR and to their flight plan.>>
While I agree with you for many reasons that “ … that the crew had every intention of staying VFR and to their flight plan.” I do not see where you get “In reality the fact that the waypoint change took place well before the Mull ...”
If you look where waypoint A is on a chart/ OS map, you will see that waypoint A is already VERY CLOSE IN – they would have had to have changed waypoint well in advance for your statement to be reasonable. Having talked to a witness who was in a position to know and witnessing myself such a turn in such conditions, I believe that it was the practice to turn up the coast very close in – those weather conditions for mist on the Mull starting just about on the shoreline but clear at sea right up to that point are common and would normally allow this practice.