Parliamentary Questions concerning Hercules Safety

[nigegilb]

This is an account of Ingram and Def Com before the journos were asked to leave

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This is an uncorrected transcript of evidence taken in public and reported to the House. The transcript has been placed on the internet on the authority of the Committee, and copies have been made available by the Vote Office for the use of Members and others.
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Any public use of, or reference to, the contents should make clear that neither witnesses nor Members have had the opportunity to correct the record. The transcript is not yet an approved formal record of these proceedings.


Q183 Robert Key: Are all the Hercules deployed in Afghanistan fitted with full defensive aid suites?

Air Marshal Sir Glenn Torpy: They are.

Q184 Robert Key: Can you define what you mean by "full"?

Air Marshal Sir Glenn Torpy: They have adequate defensive aids to match the threat that we are going to face in Afghanistan, without going into the detail of the defensive aids.

Q185 Robert Key: This is quite important because yesterday in the House of Lords Lord Drayson said in column 524 that we use aircraft only when they have the appropriate defensive aid suites. Later on, in answer to Lord Luke, he said that the aircraft go into those areas having in all cases the defensive aid suites that they require. Can you confirm that in 2004/5 the programme to equip the 15J Hercules with the latest generation defensive aid suites was cancelled?

Air Marshal Sir Glenn Torpy: I cannot confirm that.

Mr Ingram: We will write to you on that. I do not have the detail. I used the word "vulnerability" earlier. We are up against a very clever, intelligent enemy. The more we want to examine in minutiae everything that we are doing, the more we are telling those who are going to pose a threat. I am not saying they are not legitimate or fair questions. I am telling you why there is a reluctance to expose too much knowledge. The knowledge may be interesting to you but it is much more interesting to those who pose a threat.

Q186 Robert Key: It is not just of interest to this Committee; it is of interest to all the military personnel involved and their families as well as the taxpayer. I suggest that there is a case for moving into closed session to explore some of these in detail because of the evidence that has been reaching the Defence Committee.

Mr Ingram: If it is evidence reaching the Defence Committee, on the basis of cooperation and willingness to give best information, we need the evidence. Let us make sure it is evidence and not tittle tattle.

Robert Key: I do not think that is a sensible thing for the Minister to have said.

Mr Hancock: Can I ask the Air Marshal to clarify his answer to Mr Key? Mr Key asked a specific question. He said, "Were the C130 Hercules deployed to Afghanistan fitted with full defensive aid suites?" You said, "Yes." You went on to say that there was a qualitative nature. They were adequate for what they were expected to do. I want to know if full is the same as adequate.

Q187 Robert Key: It is not, is it?

Air Marshal Sir Glenn Torpy: There is a range of defensive aids that you can put on any aircraft. There are radar warning receivers, missile warning receivers and other defensive aids and I would not want to go into the details of those. We will never put an aircraft into Afghanistan which does not have a defensive aid suite that we think is capable of taking on the threat which they may be faced with.

Q188 Chairman: It has been suggested that we should move into closed session which we will consider doing towards the end of this at about ten to twelve.

Mr Ingram: I am not sure that we have the answers you are seeking.

Chairman: You may not have the answers but in the questions which we will be able to put in closed session you will be able to go away and think about those answers.

Q198 Chairman: We have suggested going into private session. If the Committee is agreed we will do that.

Air Marshal Sir Glenn Torpy: Could I clarify on defensive aid suites? Maybe I did not make myself completely clear. Defensive aid suites mean exactly what they say. There is a range of capabilities which are brigaded under that. Some are for warning and some are for countering the threats which are then picked up by those systems. All of our aircraft will have an appropriate suite of those capabilities to match the threat that our intelligence indicates is going to be faced in Afghanistan.

Chairman: I think we still have some questions we would like to ask.