ok guys. bickering amongst each other achieves nothing.
LLUKE, unfortunately on the UK side there is a great deal of anger towards the VNV as they have within the D and K accord given the company very little room for to move when it comes to the UK pilots. I agree with KLMer that they do a very god job for their members however that should never be to the detriment of others.
from a friend (who is a VNV member) for all to see is a translated version of that agreement.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Combining KLM uk and KLC
The following applies to pilots who on 1-11-2002 change over from KLM uk to KLC uk ltd:
On 1-1-2003 at the latest, KLC uk ltd pilots who on that date are less than 46 years of age must indicate whether they opt for a career with KLM.
The following applies to pilots who opt for a career with KLM and meet the selection criteria set by KLM in this connection:
Commencement of service and placing on the KLM seniority list (at the bottom, in the same order as KLC uk ltd seniority) as of 1-1-2003;
On 1-7-2005 at the latest, captains will hold a position conforming to their place on KLM’s seniority list. If necessary, they will in the period from 1-7-2004 to 1-7-2005 be retrained to first officer on the same type of aircraft.
The commitment time starts on 1-1-2003. After any retraining to first officer on the same type, this function will be regarded as being performed as from 1-1-2003 for the determination of commitment time.
So long as a Fokker 70/100 captain performs this function and on the basis of seniority has not yet become eligible, he will, notwithstanding the salary rules, receive a function payment on the basis of seniority.
The following applies to pilots with an employment relationship with KLC uk ltd:;Allocation of KLC uk ltd/KLC regional functions to KLC uk ltd pilots in the ratio of 1:2 relative to KLC/KLM pilots;
As of 1-11-2002 at the latest, no more pilots will be taken on by KLC uk ltd.
Over a period of five years, the number of KLC uk ltd pilots will decrease cumulatively year by year as follows:
Scrutiny date Decrease in FTEs (cumulative)
1-11-2003
28
1-11-2004
56
1-11-2005
84
1-11-2006
112
1-11-2007
140
The maximum number of Fokker 70/100 captain positions at KLC uk ltd will not be more than 76, on the understanding that this number will be corrected for growth and shrinkage in the number of Fokker 70/100 captain positions in the ratio of 1:2 relative to KLC/KLM pilots. All this with respect to the situation as of 1-11-2002.
------------------------------------------------------
now ok the BUZZ option has now gone so people are now trapped in KLCuk with the VNV having the power of the above agreement.
I agree LLUKE we need to work together to secure a future for all, the KLCuk pilots have dreams, familys, lives just the same as a KLM pilot does, all we want is to have our future secured and not live under the cloud of discrimination that we are now. As I have said before in previous postings I personally dont blame any KLM contracted pilot for this situation most that i have flown with or met are decent people who would not wish harm on anyone. But please understand this discrimination is being done in your name and it has to stop.
The best way foward here is for you to ask your union (VNV) to support fellow pilots in their plight and stop this push out the door and no future policy, this is so dangerous for us all because if we dont sort this soon and work as one Air France unions could potentially decimate in the same way to all of us.
quote:"Imagine KLM asks KLC to take care of a B747 flying daily AMS-JFK. KLC decides to hire PARC pilots. Should they also be on the list? If KLM-UK is allowed, PARC should be too ofcourse. And Transavia, and the KLS students and what about the poor people from Sabena??? "
This really shows a complete mis understanding of the situation, KLM has taken Airuk assets, aircraft, routes etc and merged them into KLM to the benefit of KLM pilots (creation of more jobs) to the direct cost of the UK pilot!! PARC would not bring aircraft to the AOC, and to quote a manager in KLM if we were to allow KLCuk pilots onto the list this would dis-advantage KLS students!!!! do you really think if KLM closed down Transavia and moved their 737s to the KLM AOC and effectively forced all the transavia pilots out of a job the vnv would accept that??
Can i ask if you were offered in 2008 the option of bottom of the air france list. move to paris , cut in pay , demoted in line with Air France seniority list, subject of course to you satisfying an Air France file check for suitability, being under the age of 46, and if you did not then KLM pilots could stay in amsterdam but must leave the company say 300 pilots per year and no more recruitment to KLM, and by the way you have a week to make up your mind and move, would you accept that? of course not. well that was what was expected of us.
please please put pressure on your union to unite with us for a common future, together we will be strong, divided we will all fall.
Last edited by bluepilot; 18th March 2006 at 00:44.