I have to say that repeating myself time and again is getting a little tiring but I'll try again.
I'm the first one to admit that AIPA (including me as a member) dropped the ball on Impulse, J* and the regionals over a significant period of time! We may be able to speculated why that was but in short, we'd be guessing and in some respects, who cares how we got to where we are now, the important things is where do we ALL go from here. Past arrogance 'conveniently dismissed'? WTF am I supposed to do now about poor actions by the COM five years ago. For the last five years I've been banging on about the importance of working together. I may have gotten more vocal over the last three years as confidence in both my own beliefs and the assurance that my operational reputation (such as it exists) pretty much safe guarded me from being shafted elsewhere but it's been a pretty consistent theme. Just because AIPA has cocked it up in the past doesn't mean that we should continue to do things seperately. An aviator is supposed to learn from past mistakes. I have. Can you?
DM, you talk about the J* guys falling on their swords for people like me. First point, I'm not telling people to say 'no' for me as a first point, I'm trying to reassure them that I value them a lot more than the current crappy offer them. After that comes the fact that it means that I may have the opportunity a J* aircraft at some stage in the future on half decent pay and conditions. Second point, J* falling on their swords for me? Again, the sword will disembowel J* crew before it gets to QF crew. You don't see that at all!
If you are concerned about a childish and pathetic attitude towards others then perhaps a look in the mirror is in order. I'm not going to defend my colleagues behaviour because I don't believe in defending the indefensible- except from over zealous prosecution that distorts the truth- as some of my comments on Qrewroom and here would have already shown. My colleagues may articulate venom in their posts but I'm not sure that is any worse than your 'what have you ever done for us' and the 'I can't wait to stick it to the arrogant mainline crew' attitude that I see from youself and others on this forum.
I'm comfortable with the points I'm articulating in these posts as an example to future generations....perhaps you should check six on yours!
Chimbu, 'stick neck out' for J* crew if they vote it down? That implies that we all need to go on strike if it goes down. With respect, I don't think we need to go anywhere close to that! Further, I would sincerely hope that no J* pilot votes for this on whether they think I will stand up for them or not. I would hope that they would know that if they say 'no' then AIPA is prepared to assist to get them a better deal. I also hope that they vote for this deal on the basis of whether it is a good deal or not.
Actually, that final issue is the main point in all of this. Despite all the comments back and forward, no one has yet articulated a position that says that this is a 'great deal' and should be voted 'yes' accordingly. It's been said that 'it's the best we can do', it's been said that it's 'guarantees our futures' (I've heard that before) but NO ONE has said this is a great deal and worthy of a yes vote. In seven pages of discussion, THAT is a telling issue!