Very Constructive glider! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="rolleyes.gif" /> . .. .How about saying something useful? I think that most (apart for penny pinching employers) will agree that it is bad practise. I'm sure that even the f/o's that we are talking about, would rather take home a nice pay check. It's very easy and uncomplicated to just blame it on them. But you'll have to agree that that is not very fair. There's loads of them walking around unemployed and if you convince one guy to not take a job that he doesn't get paid for then there will be 6 in line to take his place. That will leave the first guy in that situation for the next bunch of years (unemployed) while the guys that did take the job by then are "experienced" and making money. I'm sorry but the f/o sitting at home unemployed because you told him so would be stupid and laughed at! Worse still, the guys that did take his place would now be in our shoes and agree with you and telling him that he should not take an unpaid job because it would spoil it for them! Why not try and blame the employers? They are the ones abusing the situation.