Thought that may provoke a reaction (and then couldn't get near a computer for 24 hours - drat!!)
Well, Andy R if you have an accident and you were attempting to land in a crosswind outside the aircraft's demonstrated limits then you are in a sticky situation nonetheless
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Wrong.
It is a demonstrated limit, not an absolute limit. A test pilot will only have a small window to test in, if the crosswind available was only 15 knots that day, then that is what the demonstrated crosswind limit will be.
If you injure anyone and you find yourself getting sued - it is going to be tough to defend your actions in such a situation. The "....well I know it is technically outside the limits but everybody does it" defence isn't a strong one
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Wrong.
It is not "technically outside the limits of the aircraft, see above.
You're right that is is a DEMONSTRATED crosswind, but even though it may not be limiting it doesn't automatically guarantee that the aeroplane CAN operate in stronger crosswinds. Sure, with common types like Cessnas, there will be plenty of people who will say they have operated the equipment in stronger crosswinds than the POH states but once you are outside the limits in the book you're going to have to explain why.
It is limiting when you run out of rudder authority. Simple as that. If you do, then you go around.
in any case, as commander you will have taken a look at the weather prior to departure and as such will be aware of the strength and direction of the wind at your destination and your alternates. You will also have a view on the risks of the weather situation changing and be in a reasonable position to avoid having to land your machine outside its limits!
I agree. Though the limits are far more likely to be personal limits rather than the aeroplanes limit. The ability to turn round after you have reached the halfway point is also a good thing, but irrelevant to this thread.
As such, if you check the ATIS and it is outside limits, then you should be in a poistion to go somewhere else with a runway that is more into wind.
Outside what limits? If it is outside
my limits then I will stay at base, otherwise I will go. My limits are a lot lot less than the aeroplanes, but the aeroplanes limits are far far more than the demonstrated.
I agree that if the manufacturer sets a cross-wind limit, you must stick to it or you will not be insured. Also, if you fly a club aircraft, you must comply with any limits in the club's Flying Order Book, or you will not be insured.
The POH for the aircraft I fly the most only gives a demonstrated crosswind. What's more, the manual
explicitly states that this is not a limit!
I know that 12kts isnt bad but i wouldnt feel happy going flying in something much stronger that that. I dont care what the a/c can deal with, its what i can deal with that i care about. As a low hours PPL, i just wouldnt like to be landing in something above 12kts (ish) up until i had abit more experience behind me.
Very sensible.
I also mentioned that you won't be insured. Ever tried to cross hire an aircraft on a windy day....9/10 won't give you the aircraft. The cert. of ins. may not mention that you have to stay within the demonstrated xwc, but the first thing the insurance companies will do is contact ATC, be it at the airfield or the MET office and get the wx. Do you really think that they will pay if you have been a bit keen to prove what a great pilot you are, and do you really think that ATC won't file a report to the CAA if you hit one of the runway side lights or Jonny at the hold.....they will.
You are talking about club aircraft and club aircraft only. It is for the clubs sake that these limits are imposed, due to the varying skill level of the renters. However, it does NOT imply that you cannot legally fly the same type outside of the club, therefore the demonstrated limit is not limiting nor illegal, unless a club/school has imposed rules to safeguard themselves.
For Christ sake, it is illegal to depart your airfield if the fc at your destination is out of limits. Fly somewhere else or fly in the morning / late evening when it is calmer (usually). You have a duty of care. What do you gain if you regularly play with fire (ok the odd approach where you feel the conditions to your commital height, 200' ish), respect.....a well done.....a wow maybe i'll try it then.....I hope not. More like a frown and noone will trust you to make a sound decision when it matters.
Nobody is saying that they have no respect for the weather or for their aircraft. They are saying that a crosswind needn't mean a cancelled flight as long as it is not above the pilots limits. "Playing with fire" is a little of an extreme way of describing someone safely and sensibly pushing their limits (and therefore their skill level) up.