T. . [quote] . .Gaunty, Good to see you are at your usual standard. Yes I still believe that the YPJT Tower would make a good McDonalds with a view.<hr></blockquote>
You Goose!!
[quote] . .You failed to answer the primary question, What happened to see and avoid, observance of safety principles is an attitude taught by responsible schools, aviation, motorbike,advanced driving,sailing and almost any other human performance pursuit you care to imagine.<hr></blockquote>
What on earth do you suppose happened to the many other Pilots unfortunate enough to have been involved in Midair collisions over the years? Or are you suggesting they were all derelict in their duties? . .HMMM.. It is easy to cast stones at those who can’t defend or explain why they didn’t see the other traffic!. .Most “performance persuits" are regulated! . .To minimise the possibility of injury or death from said pursuits! . .This is because even the best stuff up! And then some need protection from themselves and protection from others who could not find their Ass.. with two grabs!!
[quote] . .I rest on my previous, where was the check on short final, "runway clear" ?????. .In the past month I personally have had 2 go-rounds, pilot initiated at YPJT , when it becam obvious previous traffic would not clear the active runway. I fail to see what the traffic density has to do with good airmanship other than to sharpen up one's situational awareness.<hr></blockquote>
So your “Sharpened situational awareness” is able to cope with how many aircraft in proximity? And even if you sighted one ( around pillars, cowlings, wings, below, above, behind etc), can you watch all the others? If you say Yes, I say Bollocks!. .Radio in an MBZ becomes almost useless when more than 3 or 4 are on frequency!
[quote] . .Chino in California with 2 parallel and a cross runway reverts to a CTAF outside Tower Hours without even a certified air ground operator.<hr></blockquote>
And let me guess?.. Outside Tower hours would be DARK, and therefore ONE runway is lit and in use!!! . .CASA have been working on MBZ day procedures for Parrallel Runway Airports. The ability to regulate which runway is used for what and by whom is proving nigh on impossible.. .WHY? Because it would resemble a circus..
[quote] . .In Australia YSBK with 3 parallel is a MBZ for as many hours a day as YPJT and the freighters are certainly more active outside Tower hours to avoid delays which supports the justification for the MBZ, one would have great difficulty even imagining YSBK is severe clear for extended periods.<hr></blockquote>
NO WRONG!!!!. .YSBK is GAAP for all daylight hours 364 day a year (Anyone flying on Christmas day doesn’t need our help!) and except between 8pm local (Weekends only) and Last light during the short peak of summer! Total of 8 hours a year !. .Outside Twr hours (DARK O’CLOCK) one set of runway lights are used ie 11/29C. .Freighters operate at night due to transport connection and delivery schedules. . .Spoken to an HS748 or Metro Pilot about nights into BK. Me thinks you know JACK about BK!!. . . . [quote] . .It would seem in the YPJT incident occurred whilst the Tower was still operating, again it is the PIC who is responsible for separation.<hr></blockquote>
Lets wait and see the results of the investigation shall we!. . . .I am curious, how many hours a year would you spend observing traffic at Towered airports?. .Not including OT it equates to around 1692Hours per year for these eyes!
Lead
[quote] . .Further more, a runway does NOT even have to be clear for a controller to issue a landing clearance. . .Read all about it, but a plain English version is: The controller must have a reasonable expectation that the runway will be available at the time you arrive. That is all. . .The rest is up to the pilot in command.<hr></blockquote>
Technically correct, although I know of not one ATC in this country that will clear an aircraft to land unless in the opinion of the controller NO collision risk exists ie . .If the preceding landing is turning off or rolling through to the upwind end etc.. .The clearance WILL NOT be issued unless the runway is clear or useable to the arriving aircraft!!. . . . [quote] . .Ardmore, in New Zealand now has more movements than ANY GA airport in Australia,thanks to all the training contracts where Massey and others have beaten Australia out, there is a wonderful variety of versions of the "english" language, etc etc, AND NO TOWER, not even for a few hours a day. . .Just a dammed good UNICOM, and a lot of pilots who have been taught good circuit discipline, and stick to it, something that seems to be missing in the "wild west".<hr></blockquote>
. .These would be the same pilots who have little experience operating in a controlled environment! And have therefore less experience in the airways system generally, you can pick them a mile away, and they are watched like hawks for the inevitable stuff up!. .Where is the traffic data collected and how calculated? How much does the “dammed good” Unicom operator/s cost?. .Ardmore is not blemish free since the removal of ATC!
[quote] . .Did you ever make it to a Great Eastern Fly-In at Evans Head. Every thing from powered parachutes and motor gliders through to the odd Sea Fury or Boomerang, over a 1000 movements on a peak day, three runways in a triangle, and guess what, no tower, not even a Unicom. . .Just a large number of pilots using the brains God gave them, and simple common sense.<hr></blockquote>
Good stuff – Just 3 little things
- How many days did the event go for? 3. . .- Airports like BK and JT operate 364 days a year for good reason! . .- BK has between 600 and 1600 moves a day for most days of the year except when its is IMC, then the traffic numbers drop due the absence of VFR. The IFR’s are of course separated in IMC. . .In a Zone of 3nm that means careful timings and one in, one out!. . <img src="cool.gif" border="0"> <img src="cool.gif" border="0"> <img src="smile.gif" border="0">
[ 25 February 2002: Message edited by: Capcom ]
[ 25 February 2002: Message edited by: Capcom ]</p>