To Q1:. .Settling with Power is specifically not called Vortex Ring State because VRS cannot be easily confused with power settling. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> . .. .To Q2:. .. .I posted a similar question on Mil Aircrew, but the responses concentrated on the brave efforts of those (Americans) who fought, and failed to touch on the issues at all. BTW, the posted email from one of the pilots is well worth reading.. .. .Like you CyclicRick, I mean no disrespect to those who were there, rather, I would like to hear some discussion on how not to repeat the problems again. Here is what I posted:. .. .Read the book, seen the film (both recommended). But I am intrested to see what others think went wrong - possibly someone out there may have even been involved. I want to stress that I mean no offence to those involved - and I thank my lucky stars I have never been in such a situation - especially that faced by those brave infanteers. I am no expert here - that will be evident from my questions. . .. .Whilst I recognise that hind sight is the view of an arsehole, I would also like to explore the good and bad bits to learn something from the operation. In using our "arsehole's perspective" (hindsight) I recognise that I would not have done any better at the time, but that we may do things better in the future.. .. .Factors.. .1. Real Time battle view and C2. The battle appeared to be one of the earlier examples of real time viewing of the battle as it unfolded. This seemed to move a certain amount of decision making from the traditional commander on the scene to the higher level (in this case a General)at the command post. Has this introduced too many decision makers in the chain, or decision makers too far removed from the gound picture? Or has it, as was intended, provided a better situational awareness for all? Or is that we just dont have the right mix yet?. .Did this contribute to the fractured C2 (remember the convoy being given delayed directions)?. .Was this a problem here? . .. .2. Black Hawk Flight Tactics. Were the Black Hawks flying at 300 ft and 60 kts in holding patterns according to the book, (and as depicted in the film) what actually happened? Is this smart in a small arms environment, (ie circling slowly within the best small srms engagement envelope)? Was this tactic directly responsible for getting shot down? Why were they circling after the drop off anyway? Why didnt they go and circle over the ocean or airfield?. .. .IMHO, despite other minor and "normal" imperfections on an operation such as this, the shooting down of the first Balck Hawk from its holding pattern is what began the undoing of the operation, which was then compounded by a fractured C2 with too many hands in the pie.. .. .Your opinions/experiences?