now lets see..... take the radius of a seneca turn doing 120-135 kts, the timing it takes for the
blue finned guys to follow to extremely wide circuits followed by a final approach speed of 115-90 at the thresholds, multiply that by the hell slow approaches of most of the other training aircraft, divide that by the size their ciruits and the need to be able to provide seperation on final =
you could kiss the ass of a seneca in the circuit and still have plenty of room to roll onto final and have the seneca having done its touch and go and be early downwind..........