Crab, I was certainly in a non SAS a/c when I spun on my pilot's course. As was the basic stude who pirouetted out of dispersal at MW back in the early 90s. . .. .I thought perhaps you'd been posted as you've been quiet for a while. Mind you, once you crabs get your feet under the table at MW, it takes a very sharp pointy stick to winkle you out. I gather that Dave Griffiths is back.. . <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" />