Crab - sorry ..... I didn't appreciate that such pedal applications would cause overtorques in all helicopters! I really only thought the Gazelle could overtorque! . .. .Sarcasm over .... I agree the SAS issue and it probably (aint saying as a definite) played a significant role in the spin factor. I used to fly SAS out for this reason in displays, especially when doing 90 deg nose up pedal turns to the LEFT, Or when carrying out fully inverted spot turns to the left at the top of a loop. . .. .I agree the SASless machines gave the pilot a greater appreciation of YAW control and a such will probably have resulted in fewer prangs in the Army beast. However, I know the RAF had a few of these go off up at Shawbury or in that neck of the woods. This YAW problem is a general Gazelle issue and one I hope I never have to experience in real anger. . .. .eden - at peace with my pedal