Houdini, I think most of us are in agreement with you. I'm A BALPA member, who turned up to the meetings and said my bit. Now the details are out and Iam being disadvantaged by the new pay deal, guess how surprised I was to be told by my rep. to talk to management direct and resolve the problem! What is the union for? I'm not an isolated case in this respect and after the last BALPA meeting I got the feeling that BALPA has not grasped the fundementals of how our industry works. Added to that, to agree a deal without asking all the members is undemocratic to say the least. Next year if the oil price takes a dive do you all really believe that we will get 4.5%?