PPRuNe Forums - View Single Post - Question for a US controller - 250kts <10
Old 2nd Jul 2005, 08:39
  #16 (permalink)  
tired
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 324
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Hi Westie!

Don't worry, I didn't think you were trying to have a go at me, and I understand exactly were you're coming from - as you say, both sides of the microphone are trying to stay ahead of the game. I also take your point about knowing the regs associated with the airspace that we're working in, but I must point out that the average long haul pilot, certainly in my company, anyway, operating into LAX might go there half a dozen times a year - in between trips I'll operate to 5 or 6 other destinations in as many countries, and will have overflown maybe another 20. Of course we try and be au fait with every countries regs and local peculiarities, we all have "little black books" with local differences and the company is pretty good about supplying us with briefing material etc, but at the end of the day it's not possible to be as clued up on any one airport as the locals are. I think most pilots know that there's a 250kt limit below 10k in the US, but how many know that it's a hard and fast law that may not be broken, even in controlled airspace and even if given a specific ATC instruction? As far as I can remember, this particular law is unique to the US, even Canada is different, and in other countries ATC has the authority to issue any speed they want in controlled airspace.

I guess this just highlights - once again - the difference between how ATC works on your side of the ocean and on mine. Over here, if ATC gives a speed restriction without conditions, they expect instant compliance, not at some time in the future, and we're used to complying immediately (but of course we will refuse any instruction if it endangers the aeroplane, just like you guys do.)

And it still seems to me that the instruction is superfluous in the first place - if it is meant as an instruction to go faster, then it's redundant ,there is an automatic speed incvrease built into the system at 10 000' - how many pilots do you know that won't increase speed as soon as they pass 10k? If it's a "slow down" instruction, I still think that it's badly timed and ambiguous - it's relying on pilots' "local knowledge" (ie that the instruction is not to be complied with just yet) and with all due respect, any system, especially at a major international airfield like LAX, and JFK, that relies on local knowledge is not a good system. I've been operating into the US for 15 years in various jobs and it's never once crossed my mind that an instruction to maintain a given speed should be obeyed at any time other than the present - the same goes for all those that I've been flying with, as far as I can remember. So there are an awful lot of people doing "the wrong thing" in US airspace, not willfully or out of ignorance, but because of an instruction that is at best ambiguous and at worst redundant when seen from the perspective of the enviroment that we're used to operating in.

Whilst on the subject, as mentioned earlier in the thread, some of these instructions do include the words "when able, maintain 280". Again, it has never crossed my mind, nor that of any of my colleagues that I can remember, that this means anything other than "when your aircraft is clean and you are able to fly that fast, then do so". Apparently it means something different to a US pilot - another difference between the 2 sides of the ocean!

Please don't think I'm trying to have a go at anybody here, I'm not. As I keep saying, I've learned something here which had never even crossed my mind before, and that has to be a good thing. I'll try and spread the word amongst my colleagues too and I hope that if any US controllers are reading this, it might make them realise that not everything has the same meaning to us as it does to you.

Once again, thanks for all the replies.
tired is offline