HeathDir.....
Judging by the superior-attitude/Yanks-are-presumed-to-be-stupid posts rampant on this thread (still non-deleted) regarding ATC issues in spite of factual, historical evidence to the contrary, I not only find it believable, I find the related R/T from Concorde's cockpit probable.
It's completely within the realm of possiblity that he shared the same attitude....that he possessed an all-knowing grasp on the Big ATC Picture, with the same ingrained derision for anything he considered to be "non-standard" to ICAO ops or phraseology as many here do, and use(d) it to jump on as evidence for incompetence. Of course, it could have been IDunno...flustered to the point of breaking about not being spoon-fed track miles.
Personally, I think it's a funny story. But I doubt that it was made-up...you see, nobody in the U.S. would realize what a major insult (so major you use it as evidence it couldn't have happened!) the lapse in R/T (and not ATC awareness) would mean in terms of embarrasment not only to BA, but indeed to the entire cadre of UK pilots worldwide. It would be an insult to what is the proudest part of any flight...how they sound on the radio. This point is far too obscure for Americans to develop a joke about.
We just don't get things like that. After all, we still sling non-ICAO phraseology like "Heavy" around in the hopes somebody else might concerned with triflings such as wake turbulence (apparently, it doesn't exist in Europe, so no worries!). It's also nice to see that recently JAA ops require one to follow an RA unless there's a visual confirmation of separation. I'm so glad to see they've finally made it into the 21st century.
And the next time I'm instructed (ICAO-style) to "Line up and wait..behind the landing aircraft" while it's still on a 3 mile final, I'll just keep hoping that nobody ever transmits over that last little bit of important information if the vis isn't good. After all, I've personally done 2 G/As that I can remember because the guy holding short didn't get the last bit.
I'm still waiting the report and feedback to me for those G/As (which, thanks to this thread I've just learned should be forthcoming). After all, someone here assured me that when things like that occur, they're dealt with immediately by the proper authories and changes made poste haste followed by written reports because (I've also learned) nothing in UK/Eurocontrol/ICAO ops remains unrefined to anything less than the highest point of safety, and they swing into regulatory action after every glitch and efficiently process it out. So I was told, anyway, by the same people who knowingly presume that nothing like this exists in unsafe Cowboyland.
In fact, these same authorities have such an all-encompassing, enforcing-to-effect-change power, the latest rumor is that France's ATC might actually begin to be held to speaking ICAO-standard English about the time we launch the first Starship Enterprise.
But I'm sure I've overstepped my bounds again. Citing comparative deficiencies Eastward instead of Westward is....well, it just isn't done.
My apologies, and I realize now deletion is probably imminent.
CPB....
As it turns out, his story was nonsense. He stated himself that the the vector his mate observed on the ILS was "legal" (his words). The "incident" was in fact, not an incident after all. If minimum separation wasn\'t lost (500\' alt in this case, both aircraft under positive control, and in Class B airspace like JFK), a quick review of the tapes would show it. There\'s nothing more to be done.
That this was an event requiring a report to his company is subjective policy, and irrelevent. That this event was worrisome to the point of desiring a follow-up by his mate and complaining to the world about it, is also subjective, and irrelevent to the issue of ATC safety. It merely speaks to his mate\'s comfort level at seeing something he rarely sees (most of us lost that apprehension long ago when flying in truly busy airspace). That\'s not ATC\'s problem...their task is separation, and in Class B for both IFR and VFR traffic, VFR traffic frequently assigned +500\' altitudes.
I can\'t even imagine what would go through his mate\'s head flying a garden-variety ILS PRM approach with parallel traffic, minimum separation in all quadrants. With a hand-flown breakout maneuver if necessary. If IDunno\'s threshold of comfort and "expertise" tells him that everyday arrivals into JFK are nerve-wracking and "dangerous", wait until he has to fly one of those!
Last edited by AMF; 28th Jun 2005 at 08:43.