Good point, what are we worth? Without us the airlines cease to operate but then this is true of many other jobs within the airline. No point having serviceable aircraft fully crewed if nobody has sold any tickets! One big difference though is that the airlines can not recruit and train a person from scratch quickly, to be able to certify an aircraft (or be competant to do so). In short, we are worth what we are prepared to do the job for. Problem has always been, if I ask for a higher rate some other snake will offer to do it for less. Times though are changing, many old school are retireing, and the internet lets us communicate to each other and find out what we are charging for our services, or at least it should. What I suggest is that we each record what we earn at each company and at each contract, actual figures not bull!!!!!. This gives us a base for negotiations for pay purposes and hopefully will stop some of the sometimes severe undercutting that keeps contract pay (and hence regular) pay down. What do you all think of this idea? Best regards to you all, trapper>