Way back when redtail started this topic, he started by saying the pilots had negotiated a new contract. Engineers and especially contractors have the ability to move around very easily. You could work for the worlds favorite today and be certifying for flying carpets tomorrow (many have!). Flight crew tend to stay in the same job, get perks for seniority and therefore more money (expenses, best routes). I totally agree that the ALAE should represent us ALL, and as a proper union. There is a rumour that JMC hold there engineers in higher esteem that first officers (hooray). A nice prescident. As the skills shortage starts to bite and before the JAA start to give licences away to our european cousins, we need to take a stand and close the pay and conditions gap with the pilots. They do have a tough job. They also have a tough union and they get suitably paid. We also have a tough job, the other two would be nice as well.