I was talking about serious IMC flying. Climbing into cloud that is above safety altitude and below icing level for realistic training is one thing, but to say that you are going to fly from say Bristol to Newcastle next Thursday relying on your IMC rating if needs be is a different ball game. Note the often narrow gap between min safe and regulated airspace and you get the picture. I started commercial flying in Aztec days when bosses did their best to stop you using airways, and can vouch for being scared fartless on several occasions, and I was not the only one. If you are talking about serious IMC flying in the UK, I stand by my original statement.