PPRuNe Forums - View Single Post - Cross wind limits - definitions please?
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Old 29th Jan 2005, 08:08
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john_tullamarine
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One needs to be a little careful, here.

Up until the adoption of OS NAA AFM/POH in lieu of the older style Australian manuals (eg for bug smashers .. to ANO 101.22), Australia adopted either the OS manual figure, whether a limit or demonstrated, or a locally determined figure, as a limit. Since the adoption of the OS manuals, the OS manual defines whether the figure is limit or (as is typical) demonstrated.

If chucky_1 has a specific, rather than a general, enquiry, he might like to email me and I can give him the appropriate CASA contacts to check on this week's policy. I don't know that the good chaps would thank me for publishing their direct contact details on PPRuNe .....

As to the terms, they mean what one would reasonably presume.

Design Standards prescribe that a suitable crosswind component be demonstrated and, if this is considered to be limiting, a limit should be declared. In practice, due to the difficulty and cost associated with chasing higher crosswind environments, the OEM often will not bother going beyond minimum acceptable crosswinds. Consider the minimum values specified at FAR 23.233, FAR 25.233, and FAR 25.237.

"Demonstrated" means what was achieved during the certification flight test program, subject to meeting the Design Standard minimum values. "Limit" means that the TP considers the handling to be critical and, for sensible extension programs, the structures folk determine that the potential for pilot-induced structural loading is not overly excessive. I guess that most of us would equate "maximum" with "limit".

I've not seen too many troubles with "normal" aircraft .. however, the problems with unduly low figures which surfaced with some of the inter-connected control aircraft can be interesting when the inter-connection systems cause pilot difficulty at higher crosswind values. I can recall a local extension program for a family of quite nice little singles many years ago where the OEM crosswind was something like 13-15 kt and an intrepid team consisting of me and my TP mate gave it away in eye-opening "oh, isn't that interesting" at about 18 kt. However, at least it made the bird a bit more useful for the Oz market as we ended up with quite a few being sold to Oz interests. However, having flown quite a few bug smashers in crosswinds somewhat above the OEM demonstrated values, those particular models were examples of aircraft I wouldn't like to see in strong crosswinds ....

As to Chucky_1's main question -

Its just that in some Aircraft Flight Manual, I had seen a slightly higher component stating Max X wind Comp as Opposed to the Pilot operating handbook put out by the manufacturer showing a lower X wind component but stating its demonstrated
perhaps you could give us a bit more detail. The statement probably only makes sense if you are comparing an old Australian AFM (with an increased limit value) with the original OEM POH data ?

Last edited by john_tullamarine; 29th Jan 2005 at 08:59.
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