Completely agree, even worse if after your full cycle you have 1 day off and than trot down to NERC for 3 days training. NATS management dont even accept it is an issue let alone try to address it. After all they know exactly what it is like to be operational in todays environment........NOT. Our managers seem to be concerned only by the size of their bonus, as a result of increasing TSF, reducing staff, reducing costs etc etc...funny how there is so much money available for the LATCC Charter, along with its actors, glossy brochures, focus groups, and pledge cards. As the operational staff work harder, longer, and under intolerable stress our managers become even more detached from their prime revenue generators.