Nice to see another mature, reasoned, debate amongst aviation professionals, ever sympathetic to one of their colleagues problems.
Ock1f
Is it really necessary to sink to that level of personal abuse in order to disagree with an opinion?
I Concede that your comments on it’s outbound sub-sonic periods are valid, but notice that you didn’t address the trickier period of when it starts it’s acceleration. There are now 9 upper air routes crossing its acceleration flight path in UK airspace, 6 at Merly, the other 3 between Merly and Shannon’s airspace. Crossing traffic either requires wholesale re-routing to go behind the acceleration point, or fairly savage level changes (say 7000 feet lower for traffic at FL390 ) plus vectoring west of Merly to achieve a safe crossover. Another option is heroic vectoring well west (say 50 miles or more west of Merly) for traffic not wishing to descend, at levels between 320-370. Flights routing Lands End to Dublin at FL390 for example, cross the acceleration track about 90 miles west of it’s start and need a sharp descent to stay below Concorde, no problem for traffic inbound Dublin, but not so popular with Icelandic traffic going home from Spain, or even UK inbound traffic going to Glasgow. London TMA outbounds going through Merly need to stay down at FL250 in order to stay below it at the acceleration point. None of this is exact as there are so many variables such as upper winds, Concorde’s performance (“round the bay” charter flights perform better than transatlantics), accessing it’s forward motion whist it’s accelerating, which is why I find it a difficult aircraft to manage.
The airspace west of Cardiff used to be relatively empty when Concorde first started, but now on summers Weekend with a southerly Oceanic track structure, it is mighty busy.
Incidentally, the re-routes, level changes, and vectoring the other aircraft suffer, is to facilitate an aircraft that has the same priority as the rest of the aircraft flying around.
I noticed that no tips or advice were offered on the other problem of picking safe levels for it’s dirty dive from FL370 whilst on a converging track towards Malby.
TT
Yes I have worked Airforce 1, don’t recall it going supersonic though, just seemed to cruise along with all the other traffic, what was your point?
Heathrow D
No need to smell a rat.
As this is an international forum I thought “London Centre” would mean more to our overseas colleagues that Latcc or even that well-known council estate, West Drayton.
Staff Number
Sticking smilies on the end of statements like “you probably got overloaded getting out of bed. Why don't you empty your nappy someplace else?” doesn’t alter the tone of the abuse.
For those of you tuning in, who have no real idea from these posts whether or not Concorde is a problem, I can assure that there are many normal, moderate and well balanced individuals who agree with me, and I Concur there are those who don’t. Unfortunately you don’t find that many “normal, moderate and well balanced individuals” posting on Prune, why lay yourself open to wholesale abuse just for expressing an opinion?
You will note that I only mention the British Concorde, as the French Concorde is a delight to work. By the time it hits UK airspace it is well into it’s climb and soars above almost all the traffic, just needing to watch a couple of well known hot spots.
My thanks to the few of you that offered some support, or at least were prepared to listen to the debate, not ever having been directly involved in it operationally, and those that managed to disagree without descending into a slagging match.
I’m not anti Concorde, I’ve done 30 years in ATC, and am a committed aviation person. I could have left to get a flying job (hold an ATPL, Instrument rating, 6000 flying, about half turbine), but stayed with ATC because I enjoy the job, and have no desire to see Concorde grounded. But as I stated, I find it a difficult aircraft to deal with, the title of the post being “Concorde- An alternative view”, not the only view.
If this is the type of debate everyone want’s in Pprune, so be it, but you won’t catch me posting here again,
It’s over to the literary lager louts.
[ 14 November 2001: Message edited by: overload ]