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Old 7th Dec 2004, 12:13
  #36 (permalink)  
Jackonicko
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Just behind the back of beyond....
Posts: 4,185
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Folding Wings/Heimdall,

Thanks. No serious research was involved.

Re the Lightning kill, I'm even more clueless than usual!

Re Spragg, I know that he didn't claim the kill, but Ezer Weitzmann later admitted the loss of a Spit, to an RAF 'Spit', on that date. Spragg's engagement is the only one that fits.

Re 208, I spoke to several of the chaps who were on the Squadron at the time. Without checking back in my interview notes I can't be certain, but I'm pretty sure that someone that day was unarmed, or otherwise physically unable to fire. Perhaps (and I'm delving into dusty bits of memory here) it was only TJ Mac, who I think got on the tails of his attackers impotently before being shot down.

While many denied that the 'revenge' took place all were distinctly uncomfortable about the question, and two of five people I interviewed grudgingly admitted that air to air kills over IDF/AF aircraft did happen. Part of the sensitivity was political, and part was due to the nature of one of the Israeli types downed - you've obviously heard the rumours, so you'll know exactly what I mean, I'm sure. I didn't understand it, myself - a kill's a kill, don't they say, and it's no different to Sharkey's C-130, really!

My understanding was that two people were very nearly court martialled over it, and that the 'revenge' incidents cast a shadow over the future careers of some of those involved, who would otherwise have been expected to reach Air Rank.

Re IDF/AF records I'd only say that the Israelis have never been terribly helpful in allowing access to any more than the PR accounts, and while they have always been eager to make claims, and to trumpet their huge achievements (sometimes 'over trumpeting') they have never been happy admitting their few air-to-air losses, even when such losses have been independently witnessed and verified.

In any event, so many people have talked to me about the Venom/MiG incident at Suez that I'm inclined to believe that it happened, while the Javelin and Hunter stories in Indonesia are even harder to dismiss than they are to confirm.
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