JP: It is not my intent to be a regular contributor to this post, there are far better informed contributors than me. This is what I meant when I said there are no facts. The pertinent facts are what could be seen from the cockpit, what happened in the cockpit and what was said in the cockpit. No-one will ever know this and it is pointless hypothesising over it. I think the quality of the 2 pilots is particularly relevent; they were not the type of crew to display gross negligence. What grieves me is that Wratten and Day have made a finding that is not based on fact either, no doubt because they were tasked by their masters to find a cause and someone to blame. If the house of Lords finds in favour of the pilots then that is good enough for me. Hoon and Cronies should reverse this dispicable finding.