New Bloke O.K. I think most of us hear what you are saying and for the most part agree.I will say however that even with 10.000 hrs on ------ types if I turned up at a club unknown and wishing to fly I WOULD EXPECT AT LEAST A QUICK TRIP ROUND THE BLOCK.I WOULD VIEW ANY CLUB RATHER STRANGLEY OTHERWISE. As for lowering flap in the turn I beg you to read my post in Tales from the Old and BOLD in private flying and to try to get out of the habit. Please remember there are rouge instructors as well as rouge pilots all the best M