PPRuNe Forums - View Single Post - Excel B767 and bmibaby B737 collision at Manchester
Old 10th Nov 2004, 15:34
  #126 (permalink)  
cargo boy
I've only made a few posts so I don't feel the need to order a Personal Title and help support PPRuNe
 
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Won't answer all the points being made by MOR but in an attempt to get him to give the majority of us a break from his insistence that an unconditional ATC taxi clearance is in some way responsible for the B767 not having enough room to pass behind the B737. I'll just say that whilst the pilot may not be able to see the wingtips of the B767 they certainly would have seen the B737 holding at S1 before they started their right turn onto V. Even after starting the turn onto V the Captain would have been able to see the B737, or at least the front half of it.

I am not apportioning any blame here because we don't know all the facts about what was going on on the flight deck at the time but what is possible is that it is totally wrong to assume, as MOR has done, that just because you are cleared to a particular holding point doesn't mean that you are able to reach that holding point unhindered. Even a runway crossing clearance doesn't absolve the crew from double checking that the approach is clear.

The constant argument put forward that if you don't see a vehicle that is about to hit your wing you are somehow absolved of responsibility just doesn't wash. When you taxi onto stand you should still be looking and checking that what may be in your field of view doesn't appear to be infringing on the path that your wingtips are going to take. If there is any doubt you should stop and ask for whatever assistance is available, whether from ATC, other a/c or ground personnel. There are cues on the B767 and no doubt all other a/c that give you an idea where your wingtips are going to pass over. I remember that on the B767 it was about halfway up the DV window frame. You used that as a reference and if you were unsure the old adage that discretion was a better part than valour in such circumstances.

Manchester has SMR and having seen it in action it is good but it isn't a tool that is used by the GMC unless LVP's are in force. As for positive ground control, get real. Even with positive air control, responsibility is not removed totally from the pilots. As in the Asiana B747 and the Southwest B737 incident on another thread on here, the Asiana pilot made the decisionto go around even though he was cleared to land. You never, ever, assume that the clearance you have been given by a controller is sacrosanct. Human error is always a possibility and because of that the flight crew have to be extra vigilant, especially if they can see an obstruction before they start their turn. The AAIB will eventually produce a report with detailed descriptions of each slice of swiss cheese and then the PPRune vultures will be free to descend on the carcass and rip it to shreds with their sanctimonious offerings of hindsight. The rest of us will try and learn from it.
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