PPRuNe Forums - View Single Post - Excel B767 and bmibaby B737 collision at Manchester
Old 6th Nov 2004, 12:07
  #74 (permalink)  
Norman Goering
 
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Quote by MOR:

"Alberts Growbag

Perhaps you need to get a life! If you have a clearance to proceed along a taxiway, it is implicit that you have the room to do so unless advised otherwise - particularly where there is SMR in operation. The only exception to this should be when the ground controller advises caution when taxiing due to other aircraft - THEN the responsibility passes to the pilot. Otherwise, the ground controller is responsible for separation. Maybe LHR Director can confirm."

Absolutely NEVER does responsibility pass from the aircraft commander to ATC or anyone else, on the ground or in the air. A commander can coose to ignore ATC altogether if there are circumstances which he/she feels would put safety at risk, otherwise, as has been said should you just fly into that high ground/taxi into that aircraft etc., the last words on the CVR being "I told you he/she was wrong!" because ATC said to do so? ATC are there to advise and give direction and you'd have to have good justification to ignore their instructions but a commander always has that choice.

ATC at MAN are superb on all frequencies and they do their very best but it would be impossible from the tower to see what transpired let alone control it. Similarly, there are always other factors to take into account - anyone (who actually flies commercially) remember the "Swiss Cheese" from CRM? Rest assured there will not be a straight forward - "He's to blame", nor should there be.

The main point has been made - everyone is okay. Next point, what can be learned to avoid this happening again? Final and least important point, did anyone ignore ignore procedures already in place?

Regarding the press, they are indeed a fact of life, love them or loathe them.

As a final note - it is physically IMPOSSIBLE for an aircraft taking off from 24L to hit an aircraft's tail with its LEFT wingtip, as has been shown by Danny. Also, what the diagram doesn't show is that the taxiway intersections end just to the left of Danny's drawing so again, "We were halfway down the runway" is physically impossible and pure fiction. As for "skidding all over place" - errrm, I don't think so as Anti-skid brakes prevent that too!

Just my 2p worth. And yes, I am a commercial aircraft commander so I do know a bit about it.
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