As a Training Captain with the airline concerned I have been following this thread with considerable interest and feel that there is just one point I can add to this fascinating discussion.
It has been my pleasure to know, fly with, and sim check both these pilots in the past and I certainly considered them to have been above average. The F/O had lowish hours and lacked experience (but then don't we all at some stage) but was enthusiastic. keen to learn, well prepared and, in short, just the sort of F/O most of us would choose to fly with given the choice.
The Captain I have been professionally acquainted with for over thirty years (from the days when he was an RAF VC10 Captain) and is one of the most highly regarded pilots I have come across in over 40 years in aviation. What frightens me most is that if it can happen this way to these two blokes, what real hope is there for the rest of us when the chips are down.
I now wait with baited breath for 411A to explain to me what a lousy trainer I have been all these years!