Cap 56 Keith
Sorry I missed you last time round Cap 56.
Some rearguard action I seem to be fighting. !!
I think you are saying
"If the force from the rudder/fin (they work together) is equal to the the force from sideslip caused by the bank, while at the same time you balance the moment from the live engine, you have zero slip straight flight."
I have to presume, as you haven't spelt it out, that you have cancelled out the sideforce due to the bank caused sideslip. Now we have no sideforce to counter the yaw being rapidly developed by the live engine. We are turning into a frisby again. Do you really want to accelerate that frisby by taking the rudder further the WRONG way.
Grab a model and visualise.
Then you say " In my opinion the zero slip straight asymmetric flight will have a deflection of the slip ball equal to the bank."
Absolutely impossible to have zero side slip with bank applied. The very reason we put on bank in the first place was to generate that indispensable sideforce to counter the yaw and allow us to get the rudder close to centre. Apply rudder further the other way and we reduce that indispensable sideforce. How can we get it back. Only means if you insist with the rudder is to bank more and retrieve that same X pnds of sideforce with more sideslip. That force cannot be reduced any which way if we are to stay balanced. Take the rudder misapplication further to a conclusion and you auger in unless your speed is relatively very high, probably beyond performance capability.
Unless you can be convinced of those statements then we have to agree to disagree for now but don't let that stop you from contributing wherever you think you can add to the debate.. So many of our less initiated must be benefitting enormously from the repartee and arguements.
Oh and that slip ball. It always drops by gravity to the lowest point in its curved glass tube which in the case of balanced banked flight will result in the ball being out of centre by the bank angle...
Keith.
Hello again. Keep the propositions coming.
Your situation 1 is now real close to how it happens except for that increased use of rudder. Before you put on that extra rudder we were balanced having arrested the yaw.
So now you go and spoil it all by changing the rudder. The tiniest bit either way will unbalance us again. But if all you want to do is go along your original track/course then by all means use a little rudder to do a slow flat turn to do just that. It is only 2 or 3 degrees anyway. Having turned to the new heading you must return to balance again by returning the rudder to its precise original anti yaw position. Remember if you change CAS or thrust or drag you unbalance and there will be a changed rudder deflection to regain balance.
We have no means of accurately measuring the angle of sideslip so must make a guess for navigation purposes if we need to be so accurate.
Situation 2. Yes that is what we do to get the rudder back close to centre. Usually about 5 degrees thank you which gives us enough horizontal component of lift to cause us to sideslip to the desired extent..
Bank hard, say 30 degrees and it is unlikely that full left rudder will hold the right yaw resulting from a now very high left sideforce due to a gross sideslip angle to the right.. We will rapidly lose it rolling over inverted to the right as the slowing right wing stalls. A very nasty event usually ending in a spin - sometimes inverted.. Don't go there.
Hey - but weren't you trying to find a way to go to zero sideslip. Instead we augered in..
With apologies for having to regurgitate much of what has been stated previously.
I should have quit hours ago and it's now after mid night down here. The subject has become addictive. Just when I wanted to start an argument about rudders operating in the wrong instinctive sense, but that can wait a while.