PPRuNe Forums - View Single Post - Reverse thrust effectiveness
View Single Post
Old 19th Sep 2004, 06:02
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Smokey
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,843
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Crossunder,

In a Rejected Takeoff, Every little bit helps, and Reverse Thrust, be it on a Jet or a Turbo-Prop, only supplies a little bit of retardation. The brakes (aided by ground spoilers to make them more effective) do the lion's share of the work, with Reverse Thrust contributing a little bit. There is an extant pilot myth that Reverse Thrust during an RTO is so veeerrry important, probably because all of the roaring and snorting involved makes them feel as though they're doing something so very proactive. Reverse thrust, be it on a jet or a turbo-prop, is very inefficient in terms of the effort involved for a small return, if we could swivel the engines 180° and apply full takeoff thrust in the reverse direction, the brakes would still win (maybe not on a DC3, but we've gone a bit beyond that).

411A says -
Dunno about the Dash 8, but in the Lockheed Electra it didn't seem to make all that much difference, high speed or low.
I agree with that for all aeroplanes I've flown, prop or jet (but the roaring and snorting feels good). 411A also says "In both cases, equally effective" - Presumable he refers to high speed / low speed as both cases, and I disagree, Reverse thrust for the turbo-prop is slightly more effective at lower speeds, but only slightly.

If you consider the use (or non-use) of Reverse Thrust during a RTO for the turbo-prop or jet, there are basically 3 engine / thrust conditions -

(1) Thrust / Power to Idle (Certification) > The residual forward idle thrust is a 'negative' to the retardation process, and you will be doing yourself a great favour if you can remove it.

(2) Reverse Thrust to Idle (Open the buckets) / Propellers to 'discing' > Removal of the residual forward thrust greatly assists the retardation process. 'Discing' propellers add to the retardation process in applying significant drag at high speeds, and negligible drag approaching zero at low speeds.

(3) Apply Reverse Thrust. Most effective in a jet at high speeds, most effective in a turbo-prop at low speeds, but effective at all speeds in supplying a little bit of extra retardation.

In all 3 cases, item (2) - Cancelling the residual forward thrust is the biggest favour you can do for yourself, item (3) - applying reverse thrust gives you a little bit more.

For WET runways, maximum use of reverse thrust above aquaplaning speed (typically not too far below V1) is your best friend. Below that speed, brakes are again 'the king of the hill'.

For ICY / Slick runways, Reverse thrust is in it's element and this is the only time that they may be of major over-all significance, but only if applied symetrically. For an RTO following engine failure on Icy / Slick runways, 'discing' may be your only feasible option if directional control is to be maintained (Remember that the failed engine is also 'discing').

Oh! - Your original question, Reverse thrust is more effective than 'discing' at ALL speeds.

The following posting slots are reserved for those regularly landing where 1500M of runway is required, but they're operating on 3000M/4000M runways with their "Reverse Thrust beats Brakes" arguments.
Old Smokey is offline