Isn't it rather wonderful the way threads wander off-topic into quite interesting areas ? Would anyone believe that the original question was along the lines of
" should a yaw string not be called a slip string since as far as I can tell it shows sideslip not yaw ? "
I think that we are all somewhat in the same ballpark ?
Milt, we probably need you to itemise several things to focus attention on some, if not all, of the main points of apparent difference throughout this thread.
Indeed, Milt's apparent heresy is quite thought provoking ...
(a) what is your definition of balanced flight ? Do you distinguish between the terms slip and sideslip ?
(b) could you characterise the aerodynamic slip vector direction as a function of bank angle ? From this follows a concern to see how the lateral fuse force varies with variation in bank angle. I don't think that anyone will dispute the observations that, if a sideslip is permitted to develop, the lateral drag will soon balance the accelerating force and the thing gets to a steady state or, indeed, that the lateral force component is a real factor generated in the presence of sideslip and has to be part of the equilibrium analysis.
(c) why should we want to operate with sufficient bank to achieve nil rudder deflection ?
(d) if we do see a need to do so, then what are the advantages and disadvantages of so doing compared to, say, wings level or some other angle of bank ?
(e) what sort of typical bank angle would you suggest is appropriate to achieve zero rudder deflection back in the region of published Vmca ? What sort of climb (or descent) performance might you expect for this case ? Some examples might go a long way to convincing us other heretics ... along with some indication of the generality of such examples ? Indeed, how do you see the climb (or descent) performance varying with bank angle .. for steady state cases ?
(f) you observe that the horizontal lift component generates a sideslip ? However, could you address the concern of the heretic members of the opposing camp who might opine that that force doesn't, itself, create any sideslip .. rather the motion resulting from the (unbalanced) set of forces does. If the said force is balanced by another (the lateral fin force, for instance), and presuming that the moment balance is taken care of along the way and that the equilibrium force/moment balance can be achieved at some point where the sideslip angle is zero, where is the lateral force imbalance necessarily needed to create the acceleration and velocity necessary to give rise to the sideslip which one needs to achieve some lateral flow circulation ? .. or is this scenario not achievable ? We should all agree that, in the presence of sideslip, there will be some balance involving whatever forces exist .. including the lateral fuse force. Re-reading the thread just now it may just be possible that you adopt both points of view in different posts ?
Score ? ... I still like catchup's first post the best ..... however, Milt's observation in respect of "yaw slip is showing" rates a very close second .. perhaps a tie ? Did you think I was scoring on technical matters ? .. not a chance .. life in the day job has been a bit torrid with workload this past fortnight .. I crave plain old hedonistic entertainment ...
I must say that this is all rather jolly good fun ... I'm just not entirely sure if Milt is on the level ... or winding us up for his own entertainment by having 2 bob each way on rudder deflection and varying the tale slowly throughout the thread ? ie the other camp's heretics are not overly concerned with the zero rudder deflection case ? Incidentally probably none of us have any difficulty with Milt's scenario in the case of undeflected rudder... it's just that we are probably not overly interested in that particular case ? .. as, in the real world, control in the low speed takeoff is paramount as is climb after the initial dynamic dramas have been sorted out ?
Either way .. all good, clean fun .. and it has challenged everyone to have a bit of a think about what might be going on ...
.. come to think of it ... Milt wins the entertainment stakes ... what say you, Fred ? I have not met Milt, although I know a little of his background .. and I suspect that he would make a very entertaining tutor in the classroom ... he certainly has provided sufficient fuel to the fire to get us all going.