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Old 27th July 2004 | 13:55
  #37 (permalink)  
Ops and Mops
 
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 158
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From: Between a Rock and a Hard Place
DFC,

How does your example point to me not understanding the rules?
Furthermore, it is totally within the rules to make short VFR flights in a B747 through class G carrying fare paying passengers without a flight plan
There is no argument that this is within the "rules".
However, GA flights (which are not training) regardless of flight rules are normal flights.
These flights, if they have not filed a flight plan, would not come under the normal flight category, but the lowest category, category Z. Flight categories are not dictated by aircraft type, but by the type of flight being undertaken.

Normal Flights = Flights which have filed a flight plan in the normal way and conforming with normal routins procedures OR Initial Instrument flight tests conducted by the CAA Flight Examining unit (RTF callsign EXAM)

Category Z = Training, non standard and other flights

As regards the example you quote regarding the B747, there are many different ways to deal with different aircraft types in the circuit under different circumstances.

The only thing that I can put this down to is that the controller has no idea of the practical application of VFR wake vortex separation. By doing this ATC are simply creating delays for no rational reason.
I would say the safety of you and your aircraft was a perfectly rational reason. If you, as aircraft commander choose not to comply then the subsequent MOR or accident investigation will surely identify who was at fault. As ATCO's we have a duty of care to ensure the safety of you and your aircraft, and if we were to comprimise that in anyway we would be the ones with our heads on the block. There may however be other reasons why you were being kept in the orbit that you may not necessarily be party to. Out of interest, what is VFR Vortex Wake separation? Vortex Wake doesn't alter with different flight rules. A B747's vortex wake will quite happily throw a C150 out of the sky under VFR as it would under IFR. 8 miles is given as the minimum safe lateral distance for a light following a heavy, calculated over the years from hundreds of Vortex Wake incidents and accidents. Any reduction of this would be at your own volition and risk.
If UK ATC were to insist on a full flight plan for all VFR zone exit, transit and entry flights then you can expect the ATC admin workload to increase dramatically as a result.
Again, where was this course of action suggested?

Please don't attack me and my understanding of my job unless you can prove beyond reasonable doubt that I lack both the knowledge and understanding you suggest in your post. Your opinion is just that, an opinion, not an assessment of my understanding, professionalism or competence.

Last edited by Ops and Mops; 27th July 2004 at 14:09.
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