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Old 25th Jun 2004, 16:23
  #77 (permalink)  
Wino
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STUDI,

I will try not to get too technical but derates and reduced power takeoffs are slightly different and can be used together in combination.


Generally for regulatory reasons, you cannot reduce thrust more than 25 percent as part of a flex power (reduced power) takeoff. So for round numbers we will use a 777 with 100,000lb thrust motors (pretty close to what AA has, I think the rolls royce engines are good for 94,000). So if you took the maximium reduction of thrust available (usual done as a simulated air temperature, we will say 70 dedgrees C but this part isn't important, just background info on how they do it)

So with a full flex at max rated power you could reduce engine output to 75,000 lbs of thrust per side which would reduce your turbine temps by several hundred degrees thereby prolonging engine life.

However, in doing so climb and cruise power on not effected and if climb power for the engine was say 75,000 lbs of thrust at sea level that is what you would get in the climb. and whatever the the cruise thrust is would still be unchanged.

But the 777 operates at an enourmous variation of weights and performance depenpending on whether you are going on a short hop like to England from JFK or to Narita from JFK.

So you have another option as well. These care called derates, usually labled 1 and 2 or something similar. The derates are a computer entry and trick the engines into thinking they are 90,000 lb thrust engines or 80,000 lb thrust engines. Once you do the derate to 80,000 lbs THEN you can flex 25 percent off of that and take the trust for takeoff all the way down to 60,0000lbs per side AND in this case climb and max cruise power will be reduced as well, thereby reducing heat across the entire operating spectrum of the engine.


Now remember that VMC and VMCG are basically a result of a ratio of the power of the engines to the strength of the rudder, That big rudder can overpower a much smaller engine thrust at a much lower speed. So you can have a lower permissable v1 at a lighter weight because the thrust will be lower so the aircraft won't roll over on its back or diverge from the runway. Suddenly cob the power though and you might have the 100,000lbs of thrust again below a speed which the rudder can counter it.


It's absolutely clear that with applying reduced T/O hrust you reduce somehow your runway length
To really oversimplify it, basically all reduced power takeoffs are calculated so you wind up rotating on the far numbers. So you are lengthening your required runway so that you use every foot of runway as an acceleration area. The point I was making was that you will reach v1 and rotate in the same place pretty much regardless of where you started from on the runway. (yes I know that is an oversimplification for all you other nitpickers)


If the EK Crew really took off from an intersection it's a good example of having benefitted from more runway (no attack on the crew concerned, just to back-up my argument). They were sure they had it right, but even though they hit the end lights. More runway would have helped.
Again the rotate point would have been virtually the same because of the flex power takeoff so it wouldn't have mattered....
More runway won't fix this bad technique. The problem was they didn't rotate aggressively enough. The point at which they started the rotation would most likely not have changed appreciably.



One other thing that needs to be take into consideration from all you always go to the end of the runway people. Aircraft actually have taxi limitations on how far you can taxi them. (Most people aren't aware of them, but they exist because of sidewall heating that slow taxing generates. Its usually around a 35000 foot limit eg. 7 miles). While you won't reach them in most cases, take two laps around the orbit at kennedy or taxi to runway a very far runway in Denver and you most certainly will excede them.

as a further corrolarry to the above. Everyone thinks you wear tires on touch down with that impressive puff of smoke, but that is NOT where the tire wear occurs. 95 percent of tirewear occurs during taxi. So extra taxing could be heating your tires such that they will blow out when you try and stop....

One last thought, In this day and age of runway incursions going all the way to the end fo the runway just means you have to pass MORE intersections at a speed to fast to stop should someone else have their head down in their cockpit when it should be up...


Cheers
Wino

Edited to add:

Engineer. While very feasible and often a cause of such incidents, in this case it has been ruled out by the accident board I believe.
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