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Old 22nd Jun 2004, 04:23
  #96 (permalink)  
Blastoid
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Brisbane
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GaggedAgain (or whatever you reincarnate as....)

Wouldn't you rather be vectoring the 74 in E with all operating mode "C'"s rather than with an ID'd target in "C" with unidentified primary target (that could be in C you never know) in "G"???? Wouldn't mandatory "C" be FAR better than transponder "whatever"???
There is some validity in your point - of course it would be lovely if everybody had a transponder, was squawking Mode C, serviced their transponders so that they were accurate, etc.

To respond, however: vectoring in Class C airspace - any targets that were observed (primary or secondary with Nil Mode C) are assumed to be outside class C airspace. You may argue that assumption. If they are inside, they are breaking the law. That is a defence in this system - the pilot has to be doing something wrong for him to be there in the first place. Having said that, see-and-avoid (unalerted of course) would still be a defence, as would TCAS for a nil Mode C secondary target (which, when it calls "Traffic", the 747 pilot will query you. And that will make you pay attention, because the fact that his TCAS can see it means that it is within a reasonable vertical distance of the 747).

However, VFR can now fly through E happily all day without a clearance, and talk to no-one. The key point in your post was that all have operating mode C - and while many do, this is where there is a major shortcoming.

As I said to you, full marks to you for listening out, activating Mode C, and speaking up if required. And if we can see you, we won't vector the 747 towards you (if we need to vector him), and the fact that we can see you means that the system is working as it should (albeit unless we talk to you, we need to apply extra buffers on your Mode C).

However, since Nov 27, I have literally lost count of the number of occassions that I have realised there are VFR aircraft in E without a serviceable Mode C (or that is incorrect), or their transponder doesn't provide a return whatsoever. That is the most concerning thing, because they think "My transponder is on Mode C, people can see me" but in fact no-one can. And before you refute this with a "but their transponder won't be indicating that it is replying", yes they have, and their has still be no return on the RADAR.

Don't get me started on non-RADAR - refer to my post to Dick.

The message in all of this is that post November 27, everyone is working within the letter of the law (or AIP, or whatever) - IFR with a clearance, VFR in E - except that he doesn't know it is not working. Everyone is doing as they should and yet the ONLY defence it comes down to is unalerted see-and-avoid. See comparison with previous example on C airspace.

And when it comes to non-RADAR - the seriousness of the Christmas Eve incident at LT is plain to see when all concerned were operating as required under NAS.

Slim dusty? No, it wasn't me - you must be confusing me with somebody else. I mentioned you were enjoying the view below.

KLN94,

2. Make another frequency for FL120 and above so that the jets don't have to listen to incessant 'bugsmasher' chatter and visa versa.
We already have that in most areas - Class A frequency, and Class E/G frequency. The trouble is the sectors are often combined resulting in everyone being able to hear everyone else. The trouble is it would require many, many more controllers to split the frequencies permanently. But nice idea.
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