Last one, for what has been a most enlightening discussion. Crab@SAAvn thanks for your input both TC and I have entered into this debate and again I think added nothing but good old fashioned honest experience. Its a shame really that we all write under usernames because it doesn't really allow the reader to guage any experience. Perhaps its time to come out, perhaps its time to go back to school and take english lessons because like you, I have read all the posts again and cannot see anywhere, where anybody disagree's other than pilots having IVRS demo'ed to them. I advocated the use of a simulator and that people should be extremely wary of allowing the aircraft into a VRS. Like, as you quote "Get AW on the subject" I have on numerous occasions having served with and for him for the best part of 25 years. It would be impossible not too having a good 3000hrs on the Scout myself. The best aircraft I have ever instructed on to demonstrate overpitching in manual throttle. Perhaps that is why I am so reticent about playing around with IVRS, anyway enough of my ranting. I shall continue to enjoy reading in between lifts