Thank goodness for the straight forward thinking and talking by both 16 Blades and Wiley.
I spent far too long last night trying to say the same thing without causing offence or upsetting the Western idealists and eventually "lost" my words with a Chateau bottled inspired missed key.
The thread started by asking the question is there any hope for Iraq. The answer, regrettably, is a resounding NO, as long as the fundamentalists have the upper hand. As it's their land,their culture and religion, and their contempt for all ways Western and Christian (and in fact everything else which does not accord to their version of Islam) we, the Coalition have absolutely no right to tell them how to conduct their lives, as long as they remain in their land.
I've spent 3 years living with and training probably the "best" that the ME has to offer and one of the most important things I learned from them is that our soft Western ways are seen as an incredible weakness to them and consequently can, should and will be exploited at every opportunity.
Reference the alleged prisoner abuse pictures-they are not pretty but are the reality of the type of warfare which our troops face. I suffered far, far worse humiliation as an RAF Aircrew Officer undergoing routine Resistance to Interrogation training back in the 70's. Time may have moved on but the atrocities committed by the mainly Islamic terrorists are worse now than ever. Sorry Beags you're wrong IMHO its not time for the Mess pistol, more a case of tightening security WHATEVER IT TAKES.