Firstly a general comment.
The previous post by VOR lifted the pprune replies above petty argument and self interest.
It is disappointing to see this effect has waned.
With regards to airspace reform while recognising pilots and ATC imputs, you are dealing with system models and scientific evaluation of data and cause and effect of behaviour rules.
Elements of the system are simple enough to be managed by extensive mathematical modeling. The more complicated systems need to be started as an existing system and incrementally changed with each increment at least qualitatively modelled.
This is what a Design Aeronautical Study does. I will post Broomes terminal airspace DAS within the week. When you look at the matrix of the study panel note the strength on engineering and mathematics also the five Phds!!
ATC and Pilots can tell you "I know this will not work" others with similar qualifications can say "nope it will work" or " it works here so it will work there". That is fine it is info the panel need to source and through enquiry evaluate they are not a facts.
It is not an end product or a study. The science is to find the parameters that cause tha ATC and Pilots to make those assessments model the parameters interactions and then see what will occur if one parameter changes and what will be the extent of the system changes.
This is not rocket science, it is harder! as there is no Newton laws of gravity and motion to guide you.
In your team you need Engineers, Scientists and Mathematicians otherwise you are in the same duck pond you seem willing to chuck your adversaries in.
I would like VORs opinion, but I would consider it an impossible task to do a DAS on a NAS starting from a blank sheet and also very difficult to try to transfer a NAS from the USA which has such major differences in primal parameters like RADAR, Traffic Density and available central funding.
After following the study teams efforts to address a DAS for CAGRS and MBZ vs CAGRS and CTAF vs Unicom and CTAF vs D Class tower at one regional airport - now I understand the modelling and science for a DAS on the NAS is an incredible task.
My solution? I never saw LAMPS but I would guess it was an incremental appproach, consulting analysising implementing waitng reviewing and then consulting......... changing a number of parameters at a time bedding them in and then .....
VOR is right when NAS was raised the powers in AA and CASA should have sought guidance from ATC, Pilots and Scientists Eng. and Mathematicians and tod the Dep PM. This will not work it is over slimplistic and could kill Australians, infact with a fair degree of probability I can tell you sir IT WILL KILL AUSTRALIANS. They did not say this or if they did and were ignored, they should have gone public.
Read the DAS on Broome terminal airspace to be posted soon and I think you may agree.
Last edited by WALLEY2; 8th Mar 2004 at 22:32.