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Old 16th March 2026 | 23:42
  #3936 (permalink)  
West Coast
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From: surfing, watching for sharks
Originally Posted by fdr
  • Libya. was a UN party, which NATO forces agreed to lead. UNSCR 1973. There were non NATO attendees sending their RSVPs.
  • Afghanistan. "Graveyard of Empires". way back when, it was Big Al 330–327 BC, not NATO, then 3 centuries of islamic invasion from 7-10 century, not NATO, Genghis Khan waltzed through in the 13th century, and added some more local spices, but no NATO sauce at all. The Mughal Empire and Persian Safavids were obnoxious for the next few centuries until Afghani's objected, and became a state in 1747. The Poms started more poems in 1839-42, and then not being fast learners, when at it again in 1878-80, nothing better to watch on telly, and sub continent food was damned good. No NATO. In 1919-21, third time the charm, more poems, body bits, and the Afghans get a really good dose of independence.. Then the USSR decided to to their bit for world pieces... and capped the management, and invaded, back in 79, and finally ran out of puff, roubles, and bodies in 89. The CIA was doing its bit, after all we armed Bin whatsisname, and set forth future events as unintended consequences. No NATO. USSR, only, with a dash of CIA. Taliban do their bit in 1992-2001, including stuff like the Bamiyan blasting... and then 9/11 comes along. And Art. 5 is called for by... USA. NATO, answers.
  • Kosovo. Following the Račak massacre on 15 Jan 99, killing 45 Kosovan Albanians, on 30 Jan 99:"the NATO Secretary General may authorise air strikes against targets on FRY territory" to "[compel] compliance with the demands of the international community and [to achieve] a political settlement". The Rambouillet conference followed, and that dog don't hunt neither. Following that WOFTAM, OSCE withdrew on 22 Mar, to permit some persuasion by NATO to get Milošević's head in the right place. From 24 Mar to 12 Jun things were rowdy, with NATO and some other helping hands rearranging bits of Serbia, holes still visible today in places like Novi Sad. The UNSC did not support the NATO action with a UNSCR, given that Russia was helping Milo the magnificent in his exercise of plinking Kosovo Albanians, hardly a surprise. Boris was still blind drunk for the most part. Serbs are still annoyed and the report on the NATO bombing is an exercise in tortology. KFOR that followed was NATO heavy but included other nations. So, yep, Kosovo is a case where NATO did its stuff, and that was not at the call of Art. 5, it was instead due to the failure of efforts by OSCE to stop ethnic cleansing, and the ambivalence of the UNGA, and the UNSC specifically to do their damned job.
  • Bosnia. UNSCR 713 predated NATO action in Bosnia and Herzegovina, and that set up UNPROFOR which was mainly NATO, but under UN sanction. Not NATO overreach to start with, but it sure did get rowdy.
So, NATO got some airplay on Kosovo, some leading to lyrics in James Blunt's songs... That is the only occasion I am familiar with that NATO overran their skis a bit, and they did that to intercede in ethnic cleansing which was occurring in plain sight of the UN, and the UNSC sat and polished chairs with their prodigious butts.

Kosovo does a pretty good steak still, Pristina is not a bad town, and since the airport manager got plinked at his own home some time ago, things have been relatively peaceful. B-H used to build some pretty good airplanes, my old SOKO GALEB had panel tolerances that don't normally occur outside of RTM plastics.

We're in agreement then that NATO has operated beyond defensive operations as you originally opined. Not saying I disagreed with them in that role, but those operations were counter to the claim of defensive operations only.
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