PPRuNe Forums - View Single Post - Cessna C208B down near Seattle, 4 deceased
Old 29th January 2025 | 13:20
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Pilot DAR
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: CPL
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Yes, that is the state "cause" of the accident, but that's the "simple" cause. There are factors, and in this accident, the factors are big. This is not simply an accident where two very experienced pilots mismanaged an intentional stall, the pilot was "unfamiliar" (page 2, first para) with the ESP system (which DID affect the airplane's handling characteristics, and which is not "presented" as being there, nor in operation), and there was "confusion" about elevator forces and position during intentional stalls (page 19, first para).

The very same thing happened to me stall testing a 182 amphibian last month, where similarly, I was entirely unaware that the airplane was equipped with ESP, nor how it worked and what its control inputs would be. My first awareness of the presence of a supplemental control system affecting my flying was an aural annunciation of "Autopilot engaged" (when I have not engaged it at all - it turned itself on), and pitch trim wheel moving at three times the normal electric trim speed (I later timed it). But, at that moment, the ESP system had already been applying control forces - with zero pilot indication whatever. All of this would be like the person in right seat pushing and pulling the control wheel while, and as the PF, you did not notice that they were doing this. If you were aware, you'd tell them to get their hands off the controls.

And, during flight testing for stall handling, the pilot is thinking about many other things about the test objective and observations, and the last thing he expects will be interference with the controls. I've flown hundreds of flight test stalls in Caravans, and I can say that the Caravan is one of the most benign stall handling airplanes I have ever flown. And, I have spun Caravans many times. They are appropriately tolerant of mishandling right up to the spin entry, but, once in the turn/roll, recovery is very demanding. I opine that this pilot was not prepared to recovery from an unintended spin. In fairness to him, from his previous stalling experience on the Caravan, he probably did not expect to enter a spin. So, if not intending to enter a spin, and obviously having had some practice spinning them, what tipped the balance in this event from stall to spin? Unfamiliar with a [hidden] system, and confusion when it actuated. I admit to also being unfamiliar when I test flew the 182. Where is the point where pilots with decades and thousands of hours on type need to start asking if this airplane is the same to fly as all those they have flown before, when it should be?

Based upon my startling experience with this same system in the 182, and after considering this report, I feel strongly that more is needed to assure that pilots are aware of such systems. The world vigorously criticized Boeing for MCAS system, I don't see this as being all that different when, again, the airplane is being flown by pilots unfamiliar with the system.

This accident, and the report are opening more questions for me than answering them....
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